Do I just say no?

He and anyone who gives away an image is setting the price in peoples heads at ZERO!!!

If I could get a GM car at that same price point I would take it, but would then expect every other car on the market to retail at that price point.

Bosscat wrote in post #12726358
He and anyone who gives away an image is setting the price in peoples heads at ZERO!!!

If I could get a GM car at that same price point I would take it, but would then expect every other car on the market to retail at that price point.

Unfortunately, you are not building cars, you are taking photos...like the other 5 billion people around you. Pretty soon, everyone can take their own photos and will not need the service of a photographer.

Bosscat wrote in post #12726358
He and anyone who gives away an image is setting the price in peoples heads at ZERO!!!

If I could get a GM car at that same price point I would take it, but would then expect every other car on the market to retail at that price point.

Then I expect you don't ever invite friends over for dinner without charging them. You're setting the price of a meal at ZERO and people will expect all their meals at restaurants for free! I expect you never offer a friend some beers, because then you're setting the price of beer in their head at ZERO and they'll expect beer to be free.

And I sure expect that if you see someone in need of help - or even just a favor - that you don't do that. You're setting the value of a personal valet at ZERO! If you ever give someone a ride you're setting the price of a taxi or rental car or limousine at ZERO! If you let them borrow your phone to make a call, you're setting the value of phone service and phones at ZERO!

Or are restaurants and bars and valets and taxis and rental cars and limousines different? Could that be because they're working as a business so a customer can count of them to be open at their convenience and doing what the customer wants.

I think you're being way over-dramatic! Someone taking photos at an event one time because they happen to be there and taking photos of a friend, and then letting someone who asks have them for free is not decimating the entire photography industry.

Actually, that would be a license, not a "copyright release." There isn't such a legally known term as "copyright release"--if taken to court, it might get interpreted as "copyright transfer," which is a legally known term.

What devalues photography is people charging money for crap and calling themselves professional.

Hogloff wrote in post #12726173
Well the OP did not take the photos for any kind of business needs. He was just having fun. Most likely he has a different career that he treats as business, so in reality he is not losing any money by giving away his photos.

eBay and garage sales are full of things that were not originally acquired "for any kind of business needs."

I suspect that if a hobbyist landscape painter, after a showing of his work, was approached by someone who wanted to acquire the lot for herself would not dither over whether to charge her a gallery full of paintings. How much, maybe, but not whether.

Even an amateur painter values his work, and if he gives it away it will be as a definite gift, not because he did not paint it "for any kind of business needs."

Perhaps photography is simply too easy even for photographers to value their work.

RDKirk wrote in post #12726835
eBay and garage sales are full of things that were not originally acquired "for any kind of business needs."

I suspect that if a hobbyist landscape painter, after a showing of his work, was approached by someone who wanted to acquire the lot for herself would not dither over whether to charge her a gallery full of paintings. How much, maybe, but not whether.

Even an amateur painter values his work, and if he gives it away it will be as a definite gift, not because he did not paint it "for any kind of business needs."

Perhaps photography is simply too easy even for photographers to value their work.

I think there may be another factor at work here, too. If I did paintings and someone wanted to buy my paintings, I wouldn't have those paintings anymore.

If there are digital images I've captured and someone else wants them, I can give them an identical copy and what I have remains unchanged.

Well I haven't heard back from her so I suspect she didn't want them at the price I suggested, problem solved.

If you did digital images and someone wanted to buy them, why would you think any differently just because you still had copies?

Even silk screen artists, who can also make multiple copies, would still more often sell their work rather than give it away to just anyone who asked for it.

RDKirk wrote in post #12727088
If you did digital images and someone wanted to buy them, why would you think any differently just because you still had copies?

Even silk screen artists, who can also make multiple copies, would still more often sell their work rather than give it away to just anyone who asked for it.

I'm not interested in selling any of my photos. A silk screen artist is welcome to sell their work just as a photographer is welcome to sell their photos. I guess in that sense, I'm a software engineer and not a photographer - photography is solely a hobby and means of relaxation and expression of creativity for me. I am not interested in - and am in fact opposed to - making it a job, even a part-time one. I don't want to get into releases and copyright transfers and whatever else.

I think if the OP wants to start selling images, he did the right thing. If he doesn't intend on selling images all he did was deny a friend of a friend some photos for free. Those photos won't be going anywhere, just kept from others because... well, just because. It's not like he's keeping them to make money off them.

I completely agree with people in the photography business selling their photos. I just think the hobbyist need not feel obligated to hoard their images unless they're selling them.

Whippeticious wrote in post #12726896
Well I haven't heard back from her so I suspect she didn't want them at the price I suggested, problem solved.

But now you didn't get any money. If I were you I would have given a price for a photo or two on a CD. What good are those photos if someone wants to pay for it and you decide you don't want the money and don't plan to sell anything?

You offered a price for a print, but perhaps that person isn't into prints and just wanted a high res version for a computer wallpaper/desktop.

How did she find your photo?

HappySnapper90 wrote in post #12727234
But now you didn't get any money. If I were you I would have given a price for a photo or two on a CD. What good are those photos if someone wants to pay for it and you decide you don't want the money and don't plan to sell anything?

You offered a price for a print, but perhaps that person isn't into prints and just wanted a high res version for a computer wallpaper/desktop.

How did she find your photo?

Yeh, looks like a lose lose situation. The lady did not get what she wanted and the OP just has a bunch of photos on his computer, possibly never to be enjoyed by others.

spkerer wrote in post #12726476
Then I expect you don't ever invite friends over for dinner without charging them. You're setting the price of a meal at ZERO and people will expect all their meals at restaurants for free! I expect you never offer a friend some beers, because then you're setting the price of beer in their head at ZERO and they'll expect beer to be free.

And I sure expect that if you see someone in need of help - or even just a favor - that you don't do that. You're setting the value of a personal valet at ZERO! If you ever give someone a ride you're setting the price of a taxi or rental car or limousine at ZERO! If you let them borrow your phone to make a call, you're setting the value of phone service and phones at ZERO!

Or are restaurants and bars and valets and taxis and rental cars and limousines different? Could that be because they're working as a business so a customer can count of them to be open at their convenience and doing what the customer wants.

I think you're being way over-dramatic! Someone taking photos at an event one time because they happen to be there and taking photos of a friend, and then letting someone who asks have them for free is not decimating the entire photography industry.

NO I am a realist.....and when people start charging less and less, that will drive the price down, and the more freebies around, will make people expect freebies.

People become conditioned......they expect to pay X amount per unit of gas, because they have been conditioned to pay that much over time, and as more people have gave away photos, because "Digital is free" people have come to expect that as the norm.

Bosscat wrote in post #12728241
NO I am a realist.....and when people start charging less and less, that will drive the price down, and the more freebies around, will make people expect freebies.

People become conditioned......they expect to pay X amount per unit of gas, because they have been conditioned to pay that much over time, and as more people have gave away photos, because "Digital is free" people have come to expect that as the norm.

I don't think its quite as bad as you're making it sound. You mention gas - people pay varying amounts per unit of gas depending upon the type of gas they want. They pay more for higher octane gas. Food may be a better analogy. Some people give away food to their friends, or sometimes even give some to friends-of-friends or strangers. Some restaurants charge cheap prices for food. Yet people will still more pay for good food.

You make it sound like a hobbyist taking photos at some event he's going to and being willing to give any photos he took to someone for free is acting evil. That's bunk. If the hobbyist were doing that every week and advertising their free photos, that's different.

Just look at the OP's reply in reply number 38.

The party that wanted the OP's pics, wanted to pay what people feel the going rate is becoming.

Had he said "I'll just send them to you" I bet she'd have been thrilled, since Aunt Betty sends everyone free photos these days.

My sister spent the 4th of a July at a horse show in Michigan, and the event tog had some really interesting stories on how folks behave in regards to photos these days.

Magazines will take free photos anyday to save a few bucks and the tog thinks he is a rockstar, cause he got published.

Lots of people bug the crap out of me to post more photos on facebook, so they can show their friends how cool they are. Sadly, they will even go mine other event togs sites for photos, sites that have warnings that those images are protected by copyright laws.

They see the value as zero, and the more folks that value images at zero, the harder it becomes to compete, as people will take free crap 9 times out of 10 over paying for quality.