fill light

alright i'm plannign on doing a shot of a bride and grom off a dock water behind them, however with the sun to their backs / facing me. My question is when doing fill light i have 2 question

1) do need a defuser on still?
2) can i leave the flash pointing up (probably not since i'm not bouncing) and instead have it pointed at them... correct?

Using a 580exii

Playonpics.com wrote in post #12741589
alright i'm plannign on doing a shot of a bride and grom off a dock water behind them, however with the sun to their backs / facing me. My question is when doing fill light i have 2 question

1) do need a defuser on still?
2) can i leave the flash pointing up (probably not since i'm not bouncing) and instead have it pointed at them... correct?

Using a 580exii

1. No. You never need a diffuser.
2. Unless you are intending to bounce off the clouds, then point it at them

Frankly, with the sun behind them, you might be ok using a large reflector for fill.

I am allways using fill flash, as previously said by edge100 you don't need a defuser and don't shoot with your flash pointing up, the couple is in front of you not up you are wasting batteries.

A reflector works better than a flash in this instance however you need an assistant to position it for you.

It depends on how much light you need, as to the size/power of the flash. For fill, you might get away with a reflector..to just bounce a little bit of light to them. It won't be enough for you to be able to darken the background much, if at all...so plan on the sky being fairly blown out. You can get a flash on full power and possibly get the background darker, but there's a lot of variables.

I would use a slave flash, personally. It would look a whole lot better than an on-camera flash.

And I wouldn't use a reflector either. I hate those things. They can make people squint just as bad as facing them towards the sun itself. Some people are ok with it, and some people squint at the slightest hint of a constant light source.

bnlearle wrote in post #12741608
You'll be much better off if you can get a second 580 to use as a slave

If your planning on using your 7D, it has built in slave with the popup flash. You could easily setup a stand and using the built in flash to trigger the flash with full TTL. Just be careful to have them pointing at each other since the sun may overpower the popup flash and interfere with communication.

picturecrazy wrote in post #12744754
And I wouldn't use a reflector either. I hate those things. They can make people squint just as bad as facing them towards the sun itself. Some people are ok with it, and some people squint at the slightest hint of a constant light source.

You're doing it wrong.

jcolman wrote in post #12745118
You're doing it wrong.

If you want to be limited in the angles that you reflect the light, then that's fine. If you want full control, then it's quite limiting in the angles to keep them from squinting. Broad lighting helps with the squints but I hate it. I prefer to short light the bride. But placing a reflector to balance the skin with a sun behind them, you're gonna need an extremely reflective reflector very close to them, and it'll have to be as bright as the sky, which is really freakin' bright. If you are ok with overexposing or flat out blowing out the sky, then you can get away with a much more subdued reflector. The point is, I can use ANY angle of light I want at ANY power, balanced at ANY level with the background, with a flash small enough to fit in the palm of my hand. And it's doesn't cause havoc in the wind. I used to use reflectors at every wedding but flashes can just do so so much more.

picturecrazy wrote in post #12747671
If you want to be limited in the angles that you reflect the light, then that's fine. If you want full control, then it's quite limiting in the angles to keep them from squinting. Broad lighting helps with the squints but I hate it. I prefer to short light the bride. But placing a reflector to balance the skin with a sun behind them, you're gonna need an extremely reflective reflector very close to them, and it'll have to be as bright as the sky, which is really freakin' bright. If you are ok with overexposing or flat out blowing out the sky, then you can get away with a much more subdued reflector. The point is, I can use ANY angle of light I want at ANY power, balanced at ANY level with the background, with a flash small enough to fit in the palm of my hand. And it's doesn't cause havoc in the wind. I used to use reflectors at every wedding but flashes can just do so so much more.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you about using flashes. I rarely use a reflector at a wedding simply because of the unpredictability of the sun. But a reflector allows me to use any shutter speed/aperture combo that I want instead of being limited to sync speed or high speed sync with my 580EX's. Also, since a reflector is a "large light source" I can get a much softer light than simply using bare speedlights.

But each has their place. Some reflector shots below.

jcolman wrote in post #12747713
Don't get me wrong, I agree with you about using flashes. I rarely use a reflector at a wedding simply because of the unpredictability of the sun. But a reflector allows me to use any shutter speed/aperture combo that I want instead of being limited to sync speed or high speed sync with my 580EX's. Also, since a reflector is a "large light source" I can get a much softer light than simply using bare speedlights.

But each has their place. Some reflector shots below.

Nice, I like the first one better,lighting is great but jacket color is perfect for the nice wooden structure, nice !

bnlearle wrote in post #12747996
Telling Lloyd he's wrong about lighting is like telling Kobe he's wrong about basketball. I'm sure it's possible, but I doubt it

Seriously, Lloyd's a lighting guru.

And that first shot you posted is great! I've used reflectors and loved them -- but I'm always too lazy to use them for weddings. And the squinting thing Lloyd points out (vis a vis angles)... that can be annoying to deal with.

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I've only been lighting for 30 + years so I guess I can still learn a thing or two myself.

bnlearle wrote in post #12748152
No offense, but I never care how long people have been doing anything in photography. If anything, the longer people have been doing it (once you pass 10 years, or so), the more likely it is that they aren't talented at all, in my experiences. It's not necessarily the case, but I know so many incredible photographers who picked up their first camera AFTER the year 2000 and I know a very small handful of incredible photographers who picked one up over 20 years ago. In fact, I know a ton of terrible ones...

What I care about is consistency and work. Lloyd's lighting skills and consistency with his images/lighting are off the charts. You may be awesome, as well, (I really don't mean to imply that you're anything but ), but I haven't seen your weddings over the last 5 years like I have Lloyd's

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San Diego Wedding Photographer (blog)
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the Raddest Photo Trip Ever!!!
Come on the next one Dec 1st-14th 2011!!!!!

No worries. I spent most my career as a cinematographer/videog​rapher lighting everything from talking heads to large sets. Reflectors are like my right hand. I couldn't do without them. When I decided to shoot weddings about three years ago I had to "relearn" flash photography. A lot has changed since I first studied it at Brooks all those years ago. But now I love my strobes. I can't imagine shooting a wedding without a handful of them at my disposal.

ya a i'd rather not use a reflector, i was thinking of just setting up the 580 on a lighting stand and shooting it from there... i use 1/8 or so power i should be able to make it like as if it was a reflector correct? Am i best to use Manual? (don't think i have a choice with Elinchrom skyport triggers)

jcolman wrote in post #12747713
Don't get me wrong, I agree with you about using flashes. I rarely use a reflector at a wedding simply because of the unpredictability of the sun. But a reflector allows me to use any shutter speed/aperture combo that I want instead of being limited to sync speed or high speed sync with my 580EX's. Also, since a reflector is a "large light source" I can get a much softer light than simply using bare speedlights.

But each has their place. Some reflector shots below.

Using HSS, you can use any combination of shutter speed/aperture you want; that's the point.