Would you buy 1ds MKII or 1d mkIII?

gotak wrote in post #12749589
Completely the photographer's fault which was my point. You can talk high ISO all week long but at the end of the day unless we are talking about picking up a D3s everyone grabs a flash eventually for indoor photography. There isn't any camera that doesn't lose details and color at higher ISO settings. While it's great to have a 1D3. The money you saved can go towards other things that might be useful. And having a single 1D3 is going to make you less able to get the shots you need as a wedding photographer. As even the 1D cameras are slow to change lenses. 2 60Ds might actually allow you to catch more shots.

Good equipment is one pillar of the photography tripod. The other is the photographer's experience and skills in making the right choice of technique and what gear to use. The third is serendipity (as in being at right place at the right time). Putting a 1D3 in the hands of a person who doesn't understand exposure is useless. Having a 1D3 with the wrong focal length lens on for a split second moment is useless. And that's why I recommend neither 1D3 nor 1Ds2.

You sound like the 1dmarkIII costs a lot. First, you can't buy it new. The market rate for an used one is about $1800 to $2000. How much is a 7D now? $1500??? How much is a 1dsmarkII? About $2k with Digi-logic 2 chipset. You can get a 5dmarkII for about the same price.

I would buy the 1D mk III out of those two. Better choice, get a 1D mk II and a 60D. Best of both worlds for about the same price.

TooManyShots wrote in post #12754234
You sound like the 1dmarkIII costs a lot. First, you can't buy it new. The market rate for an used one is about $1800 to $2000. How much is a 7D now? $1500??? How much is a 1dsmarkII? About $2k with Digi-logic 2 chipset. You can get a 5dmarkII for about the same price.

A 7D used is 1300 to 1400 dollars. Enough difference from a 1d3 for a flash or a prime. Or 2 60Ds new with about the same performance as the 7D can be had for 2k after taxes right now in Toronto. The 2 60Ds is my suggestion if he's serious about becoming a pro photog. When he has some cash from jobs he can then look into upgrading to a 1D. If he thinks it's worth it. When he had a few jobs he'll know better what he wants to do. Do pros come here and ask "what camera should I get?", very rarely. It's always the new photographers who come and ask. Most professionals or people who have been in the hobby for a while know pretty well what they need. When they ask it's usually just trying to get support to face the wife for blowing away a wad of cash. Rarely do they seriously ask "what suits my needs".

Why is that so hard to understand? Do you live in a world of unlimited budgets? He's a new photographer who wants to, it seems, make some $$ from this hobby. I don't see what's so strange to you about a suggestion to spend what money he has wisely for what he appears to want to do. A 1D3 isn't coming out of Steve Job's butt, it's not magical. It's not going to make his venture successful and just having it is not going to make good photographs if he doesn't have the experience and skills yet. Also, you shoot sports. You know as well as I do that all else being equal 2 cameras rocking 2 zooms will get you much more shots than trying to make do with 1 body. The same is with weddings.

gotak wrote in post #12749441
Neither because you aren't making money off it yet. If you are doing weddings you need 2 bodies and for the price of a 1D3 you can get 2 60d new in Toronto at Aden. And if I were you and sports is really important I think a 7D suits you better than popping for a 1D3 now.

Also, as usual when someone say they want to shoot a lot of this and that and sounding like a bright eyed new photographer I always search their posts. 4 days ago you posted your first, on POTN, 2 shots for people to critique. I am not sure how much time you have had to use your gear but everyone in Toronto who has a DSLR seems to think they can be a wedding photographer. Do a quick google search and you'll be overwhelmed at the endless websites of people who are trying to make it as professional photographers.

Now that being said here's why I think you should think 60D or 7D.

Cost is lower even if you get the 1D3 used. You can use that for other things. You have 1 flash right now it's likely if you do any weddings you'll want more and light stands, soft boxes, umbrellas etc. All that costs money. Now in your experience you might not think it's needed but my sister hired a photo who, in my mind was a complete amateur, who came into the church rocking a 5D classic and a 480EX flash on top. The church had high wood ceilings shaped like the inside of the roof. The photo didn't seem to know how to expose correctly either. End result was a epic fail. The photos from the church were so noisy due to her having to add exposure in post process that the in laws looked like they were 70 years old and every black suit turned into a technicolor noise dream coat. Flip to my photos on the 7D they were clean where I didn't use flash. Where I did I used lighting gear cause I know I cannot bounce flash in that church. They ended up sending my photos to the relatives who cannot make it to the wedding.

In a nut shell wedding photography is expensive in gear investment. Any money you have left can be invested for other stuff you might need for your "business". The 18 mp APS-C sensors that canon has right now is an amazing piece of engineering. It gives you performance similar to what full frame sensors were doing a few years ago. And in the case of the 7D there are technical advances in that camera that canon hasn't put in even the new mk4 (like color sensitive metering).

Also finally, it's bloody hard to make money in Toronto as a photographer. Unless you do it full time and knows how to market yourself. Just putting your website up isn't useful as everyone and their cousin wants to be a photographer in Toronto. Do a google search and you'll be overwhelmed by the number of hits. Everyone thinks they can make money cause the full timers are charging $3000 per wedding. Flip side is there are hundreds of part timers who do it for 1/4 of that price.

Gotak, Thank you for your input and thoughts as well as suggestions regarding the 7D and 60D. Also, I do remember your thread about your sister's wedding from RFD . You did take great pics and were better then the pro photog.

Anyways, I don't believe I ever mentioned going pro or becoming a wedding photog at all, maybe I should have clarified that in my posts. I have 3-4 weddings in the next month and one in 1st week of september. 2 of the weddings are for family and 1 is for a friend where he asked me to shoot as well along side the professional photog that they have hired already (All the weddings I will be shooting already have pro hired photogs). One of the other weddings I am actually joining a very good friend of mine who is a pro photog and is allowing me to shoot with him. I just wanted to get a proper camera that would be good in low light and one which which can be used for sporting events as well. I did a lot of research and decided 1d series is where I should invest into since it will meet both of my criterias. I also thought about getting the 5DII, but its Auto focus issues made me think otherwise. I love the colours 1ds II and IDIII brings out in photos, obviously ID MK IV is much better but it is not something I need right now. I also did research about 7D too but it did not appeal to my liking for some reason.

At the moment, this is a hobby for me and I am just having fun with it. I want to start shooting sports and I already shoot a lot of portraits of family and friends. I have a full-time job which takes up a lot of my time and I love my full-time job and have absolutely no desire to leave that to become pro photog. My goal is that if somehow I do get few events to shoot for weddings/b-days, graduation or whatever it may be, as long as I am credited for the work and it allows me to pay off my current gear then I am a happy man. Fortunately, I am able to afford the luxuy of owning some high end gear, but obviously I am not going to invest big dollars until I have confirmed bookings, which I don't think I will anytime soon. So in short, I am not trying to tap into the wedding market in Toronto at all and I know its hard. I simply want to become a better photographer and learn more about technique and lighting.

I really do appreciate everyone's input in trying to help me with this and I think I am going to be buying the 1D MKIII as I will be shooting some ice hockey events in winter and I think MK III will serve me better.

Karim.

Karim, you very tactfully reponded to what seemed to be comments tainted with a slight amount of bitterness. Gotak I think you should understand that not everyone who picks up a camera instantly wants to become a Pro, some people simply enjoy taking good photos and having a full time career means that they are able to invest in good equipment and please, remember, everybody has the capacity to learn so "Putting a 1D3 in the hands of a person who doesn't understand exposure" is not useless if that person is learning and in turn bettering themselves and wishes to spend their savings on the best body their money can buy according to their projected needs. Your advice in itself was objective but it was some of the comments in between which I took exception to. We all come here for advice at some point and I believe that we should encourage each other to betterment.

Karim1980 wrote in post #12758748
Gotak, Thank you for your input and thoughts as well as suggestions regarding the 7D and 60D. Also, I do remember your thread about your sister's wedding from RFD . You did take great pics and were better then the pro photog.

Anyways, I don't believe I ever mentioned going pro or becoming a wedding photog at all, maybe I should have clarified that in my posts. I have 3-4 weddings in the next month and one in 1st week of september. 2 of the weddings are for family and 1 is for a friend where he asked me to shoot as well along side the professional photog that they have hired already (All the weddings I will be shooting already have pro hired photogs). One of the other weddings I am actually joining a very good friend of mine who is a pro photog and is allowing me to shoot with him. I just wanted to get a proper camera that would be good in low light and one which which can be used for sporting events as well. I did a lot of research and decided 1d series is where I should invest into since it will meet both of my criterias. I also thought about getting the 5DII, but its Auto focus issues made me think otherwise. I love the colours 1ds II and IDIII brings out in photos, obviously ID MK IV is much better but it is not something I need right now. I also did research about 7D too but it did not appeal to my liking for some reason.

At the moment, this is a hobby for me and I am just having fun with it. I want to start shooting sports and I already shoot a lot of portraits of family and friends. I have a full-time job which takes up a lot of my time and I love my full-time job and have absolutely no desire to leave that to become pro photog. My goal is that if somehow I do get few events to shoot for weddings/b-days, graduation or whatever it may be, as long as I am credited for the work and it allows me to pay off my current gear then I am a happy man. Fortunately, I am able to afford the luxuy of owning some high end gear, but obviously I am not going to invest big dollars until I have confirmed bookings, which I don't think I will anytime soon. So in short, I am not trying to tap into the wedding market in Toronto at all and I know its hard. I simply want to become a better photographer and learn more about technique and lighting.

I really do appreciate everyone's input in trying to help me with this and I think I am going to be buying the 1D MKIII as I will be shooting some ice hockey events in winter and I think MK III will serve me better.

Karim.

If you are curious about the 5D2, 1D3, 1D4, and 7D, click the mini-reviews in my signature, I have done a back to back on several of these. They were fun, most were about high ISO, but there were some IQ comparisons as well, both controlled scenes as well as live events. The MK3 does hockey games quite well, but so do the other crop bodies.

Shot with 1D4 and auto-ISO
http://teamspeed.smugm​ug.com …Hockey/Komets-Feb-18-2011

Shot with 7D at 6400+
http://teamspeed.smugm​ug.com …y/Komet-Hockey-Jan-7-2011

One that makes me chuckle each time I look at it... "Hmm, refs are ignoring me, okay, quickly now, CHECK..... Dude don't you know how to skate...."

Jermainek wrote in post #12759458
We all come here for advice at some point and I believe that we should encourage each other to betterment.

This is exactly why I had initially created this thread because I wanted to know user feedback before I bought anything. I have done a lot of research on the camera body, yet I guess I just needed some more advice to see if there was something else out there that may have suited my needs. I started off with xsi based on one of my peers recommendation as a starter camera and honestly it did teach me a lot about Aperture, shutter speed, iso, EV, metering and it was a good step but now I think I want to move to something a little more exciting.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #12759480
If you are curious about the 5D2, 1D3, 1D4, and 7D, click the mini-reviews in my signature, I have done a back to back on several of these. They were fun, most were about high ISO, but there were some IQ comparisons as well, both controlled scenes as well as live events. The MK3 does hockey games quite well, but so do the other crop bodies.

Thank you Teamspeed, I am about to start reading those reviews right now. Thank you for the links and great shots of the hockey game, you had some great captures .

Karim.

Jermainek wrote in post #12759458
Karim, you very tactfully reponded to what seemed to be comments tainted with a slight amount of bitterness. Gotak I think you should understand that not everyone who picks up a camera instantly wants to become a Pro, some people simply enjoy taking good photos and having a full time career means that they are able to invest in good equipment and please, remember, everybody has the capacity to learn so "Putting a 1D3 in the hands of a person who doesn't understand exposure" is not useless if that person is learning and in turn bettering themselves and wishes to spend their savings on the best body their money can buy according to their projected needs. Your advice in itself was objective but it was some of the comments in between which I took exception to. We all come here for advice at some point and I believe that we should encourage each other to betterment.

Hey I am just making a suggestion. Whether people choose to take it personally or view it as being "bitter" isn't always under my control.

In this case I did read too much into the original post. If one body is your need then of course buy the best available at your budget, providing you know it's what you need (key point). That is why Karim got himself a 70-200 mk2 isn't it?

So my apologies for reading too much into the posts.

As for putting a 1D3 in the hands of a person who don't understand exposure? Yes I still think that comment is valid even if people are offended by it. If someone's still working on learning exposure and gathering gear, I do believe that buying a top or near top end pro body is questionable. It's likely that person hasn't yet figured out what they want to do or how to do it yet. And it's easy to waste money buying and selling or buying and returning.

I recall a while back someone coming onto this forum and got a lot of advice on gear. He ended up buying a rebel, returned it for a 7D, return that for a 5D2. In the end he had used up his budget on a 5D2, 50 1.8, a 580ex2 and a light stand. He didn't know what he was doing. Wanted to make some money as a photographer but knows nothing about taking photos. All the advice he got made sense one way or another and each of the pieces he got were good in their own way for a list of reasons. Together and in the context of the user it started to look a bit like a diaster. Lots of people started to question what he was doing and it got a bit discouraging. Yet who's fault was it? Did people give him bad advice? Not really. Yet through what we told this guy he ended up with gear that didn't make sense for someone who just picked up a DSLR.

I don't think it's wrong to suggest other options and give explanation as to why I am suggesting it. If you think that's bitter then oh well, shug. On my part I will ask more questions next time before talking and get a better handle as to what the OP is asking.

I quote my sentence "Your advice in itself was objective but it was some of the comments in between which I took exception to". Your suggestions/advice were just that, objective, albeit you read a tad too much into it as you've already admitted, it was your discouraging remarks about becoming a wedding photographer to name one example which wasn't really very helpful. What is under your control is how you phrase your sentences so that it minimises the possibility of people reading bitterness in them or people feeling bashed or discouraged just as it is in face to face communication.

As for putting a 1D3 in the hands of a person who don't understand exposure, keep in context of the OP - you're forgetting a persons capacity to learn, this is an individual who has a DSLR already and knows what he wants to photograph going forward. You can have an end goal and put steps in place to reach it, everybody goes about attaining their goals differently so if that means that he buys a top level camera as his second camera and intends to "grow into it" then that's fine if it works for him. So although it may be questionable we shouldn't judge until we question. Someone who is totally clueless about photography having no idea what they intend to shoot and the OP are two very different people Gotak, so let's address people on an individual basis rather than a blanket approach. All being said it takes a big person to apologise and admit his mistakes so good for you.

Sorry that I dont have much advice to give you Karim as I've never shot with the cameras you're thinking of getting but I believe that for your requirements the 1DIII will provide you the best compromise - I shoot similar to you (replacing your sports with my wildlife and removing your plans for weddings) and if I had the money I'd buy a 1D IV for wildlife (higher fps & 1.3 sensor) and a 1Ds III for portraits (sheer IQ of the ff), if I had to choose one or the other it would be the 1D IV being the best compromise, the 1D III is the next best body in the context of your requirements.

Karim1980 wrote in post #12758748
At the moment, this is a hobby for me and I am just having fun with it. I want to start shooting sports and I already shoot a lot of portraits of family and friends. I have a full-time job which takes up a lot of my time and I love my full-time job and have absolutely no desire to leave that to become pro photog. My goal is that if somehow I do get few events to shoot for weddings/b-days, graduation or whatever it may be, as long as I am credited for the work and it allows me to pay off my current gear then I am a happy man. Fortunately, I am able to afford the luxuy of owning some high end gear, but obviously I am not going to invest big dollars until I have confirmed bookings, which I don't think I will anytime soon. So in short, I am not trying to tap into the wedding market in Toronto at all and I know its hard. I simply want to become a better photographer and learn more about technique and lighting.

If you haven't handled a 1D series camera before, please do so before putting your money down on one. They are rather large and, IMO, unwieldy (and I have relatively large hands...), and since you're doing this as a hobby, that might impact your willingness to take it with you to various locations.

yep... I have 2 as a mater of fact!