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Thread started 15 Jul 2011 (Friday) 15:11
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Question about the Focal length multiplier

 
moltengold
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Jul 15, 2011 15:11 |  #1

Question about the Focal length multiplier

first im new here and new in photograghy :)
i bought the Canon 60D with allmost the EF-S Lenses
and i use it for a month
when i try the EF-S 55-250mm f4-5.6 IS lens
i can see things from a far distance and shoot a nice photos

then i decided to upgrade to the full frame Canon 5D Mark II with some L lenses
when i try the zoom EF 24-105mm f4L IS USM
i cant reach the distance i want
then i bought the zoom EF 70-300mm f4-5.6L IS USM
and try it
even with this zoom i cant reach the distance like EF-S 55-250mm f4-5.6 IS lens

then i knew the secret
the 60D had a crop sensor 1.6x
when i use the zoom EF 70-300mm f4-5.6L IS USM with the 60D
the zoom will be 112-480mm
i can reach more distance better than the EF-S 55-250mm f4-5.6 IS lens

now i knew that the nikon D7000
had a 1.5x sensor

and the Olympus E-5 had a 2x sensor

my question is:
if i buy the Olympus E-5 with the zoom ED 70-300mm 1:4.0-5.6
shall i came with this distance :
140-600mm  ?????????????

and thanks to all


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gonzogolf
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Jul 15, 2011 15:18 |  #2

A couple things, your lens isnt getting any longer, it isnt true reach, but rather the image circle is being cropped so with 1.x to 2x sensor you are getting less, it just appears to be magnified because its being cropped before you see it. Surely you arent buying all these cameras to make a particular lens length perform differently?




  
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moltengold
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Jul 15, 2011 15:31 |  #3

gonzogolf wrote in post #12764479 (external link)
A couple things, your lens isnt getting any longer, it isnt true reach, but rather the image circle is being cropped so with 1.x to 2x sensor you are getting less, it just appears to be magnified because its being cropped before you see it. Surely you arent buying all these cameras to make a particular lens length perform differently?

thanks

but why canon didnt make all the lenses had f2.8 or 1.8 or 1.4
why they made some of them f4.5?
they must let all the people can buy a camera and one lens
why all these expensive collection start with f2.8?
make them all f 2.8 :)


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gonzogolf
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Jul 15, 2011 15:36 |  #4

Maximum apeture has nothing to do with the magnifier so you have switched subjects on me. There are reasons of physics that you must not understand to explain why 2.8 costs more than F4 and so on. The F stop is a ratio of the focal length of a lens, so to make a F2.8 lens it must be larger in diameter than an f4 lens of the same length, that means more glass, more weight, and so on. In the case of zoom lenses it magnifies even more as the aperture changes size as the lens is zoomed, another layer of design expense is added. I understand your populist ideal, but it ignores reality on several levels.




  
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LiberationFrequency
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Jul 15, 2011 15:39 |  #5

moltengold wrote in post #12764549 (external link)
why all these expensive collection start with f2.8?
make them all f 2.8 :)

Uhhh....

Because its expensive to make f/2.8 zoom and then there wouldn't be any cheap lenses.




  
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moltengold
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Jul 15, 2011 15:40 |  #6

gonzogolf wrote in post #12764574 (external link)
Maximum apeture has nothing to do with the magnifier so you have switched subjects on me. There are reasons of physics that you must not understand to explain why 2.8 costs more than F4 and so on. The F stop is a ratio of the focal length of a lens, so to make a F2.8 lens it must be larger in diameter than an f4 lens of the same length, that means more glass, more weight, and so on. In the case of zoom lenses it magnifies even more as the aperture changes size as the lens is zoomed, another layer of design expense is added. I understand your populist ideal, but it ignores reality on several levels.

thanks


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moltengold
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Jul 15, 2011 15:41 |  #7

LiberationFrequency wrote in post #12764590 (external link)
Uhhh....

Because its expensive to make f/2.8 zoom and then there wouldn't be any cheap lenses.

thanks


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amfoto1
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Jul 15, 2011 15:55 |  #8

Your logic is correct, but as gonzogolf states, the lens focal length doesn't really change. What changes is the sensor behind it. Everyone referes back to how a lens would perform on "full frame", which is defined as the approx 24x36mm size image produced by film and digital cameras such as the 5D Mark II.

But let's look at it a little differently.

If you used 55-250 lens on 60D (1.6X crop) and liked the "reach" that lens gives you...

With a full frame 5DII (1.0X) you would need an 88-400mm lens to acheive the same.

Nikon crop camera (1.5X) is so similar to Canon crop (1.6X) you really wouldn't need much different than the 55-250mm.

Olympus (2X) on the other hand could give you similar reach with 44-200mm lens.

Now you might not be able to get lenses that exactly match up with the above. And, really there are many other reasons to choose one format over another. It's not only about the lenses.

"Crop sensor" such as Canon 1.6X and Nikon 1.5X are popular because they offer a reasonably nice compromise of price, size and image quality. Larger sensors (full frame) will cost more and generally will need bigger lenses to achieve the same result. Smaller sensors (2X) will struggle more to maintain good image quality and theres more of a limit to how much resolution is possible, because only a finite number of pixels can be crammed into a sensor. Smaller, more crowded sensors are more prone to noise and give less "clean" images at higher ISOs.

Camera sensors are made from a standard silicon wafer. You can make 80 sensors from one, in the 1.5x or 1.6X size (approx. 15x22mm). You can only make 20 full frame (24x36mm) sensors from the same wafer. There are flaws in silicon wafers, too. Say, for example, they average three flaws on each wafer's surface, randomly scattered but generally meaning 3 unusable sensors on each wafer. With the amaller crop sensors, that would be a loss rate of under 4%. Howwever, with the full frame size sensor, the loss rate would be much higher 15%. The even smaller "Four/Thirds" format Olympus uses would be even more cost efficient in manufacturing, but as already mentioned, the small size would be more challenging in other ways.

FYI, Canon also makes 1D series cameras with a 1.3X crop sensor. Sigma's cameras are 1.7X. Some Leica digital are 1.33X. It's a more complicated world these days! Sometimes I wish we were all still shooting 35mm film with our SLRs, where there were mostly "full frame" and a few "half frame" cameras... not many other variations. (Instead there were many other film sizes, that fit other cameras and used various other formats ranging from subminiature to large sheet film sizes.)


Alan Myers (external link) "Walk softly and carry a big lens."
5DII, 7DII, 7D, M5 & others. 10-22mm, Meike 12/2.8,Tokina 12-24/4, 20/2.8, EF-M 22/2, TS 24/3.5L, 24-70/2.8L, 28/1.8, 28-135 IS (x2), TS 45/2.8, 50/1.4, Sigma 56/1.4, Tamron 60/2.0, 70-200/4L IS, 70-200/2.8 IS, 85/1.8, Tamron 90/2.5, 100/2.8 USM, 100-400L II, 135/2L, 180/3.5L, 300/4L IS, 300/2.8L IS, 500/4L IS, EF 1.4X II, EF 2X II. Flashes, strobes & various access. - FLICKR (external link)

  
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amfoto1
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Jul 15, 2011 16:08 |  #9

LiberationFrequency wrote in post #12764590 (external link)
Because its expensive to make f/2.8 zoom and then there wouldn't be any cheap lenses.

And because a larger aperture means a much larger and heavier lens.

An f1.4 lens needs an aperture diameter that is half the focal length. So a 50mm f1.4 lens needs a 25mm diameter aperture. A 100mm f1.4 would need a 50mm diameter aperture.

Sometime compare a 70-200mm f2.8 lens with a 70-200mm f4 lens. Or compare a 300mm f4 with a 300mm f2.8. Or 400mm f2.8 with 400mm f5.6. Or a 50mm f1.8 with a 50mm f1.4 with a 50mm f1.2 lens.

Variable aperture zooms, say f3.5 at the wide end and f5.6 at the long end, are similarly to help keep costs down and size/weight reasonable.


Alan Myers (external link) "Walk softly and carry a big lens."
5DII, 7DII, 7D, M5 & others. 10-22mm, Meike 12/2.8,Tokina 12-24/4, 20/2.8, EF-M 22/2, TS 24/3.5L, 24-70/2.8L, 28/1.8, 28-135 IS (x2), TS 45/2.8, 50/1.4, Sigma 56/1.4, Tamron 60/2.0, 70-200/4L IS, 70-200/2.8 IS, 85/1.8, Tamron 90/2.5, 100/2.8 USM, 100-400L II, 135/2L, 180/3.5L, 300/4L IS, 300/2.8L IS, 500/4L IS, EF 1.4X II, EF 2X II. Flashes, strobes & various access. - FLICKR (external link)

  
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moltengold
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Jul 15, 2011 16:14 |  #10

amfoto1 wrote in post #12764679 (external link)
With a full frame 5DII (1.0X) you would need an 88-400mm lens to acheive the same.

thank you soo much amfoto1
now after what i read from you
i strongly need the Canon EF 100-400mm f4.5-5.6L IS USM
to my Canon 5D Mark ii


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Rivest
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Jul 15, 2011 16:48 |  #11

^^Nope, I think you need the Sigma 200-500F2.8 :

IMAGE: http://a.img-dpreview.com/news/0801/sigma/sigma_200-500-001.jpg

IMAGE: http://www.waitingoutside.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/juza_handholding_sigma_200-500_2-8.jpg

IMAGE: http://www.juzaphoto.com/shared_files/articles/sigma_200-500/009477l.jpg

(Pictures kindly borrowed from Google)

Hi, I'm David.

  
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jhayesvw
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Jul 15, 2011 17:45 as a reply to  @ Rivest's post |  #12

the advertising caption for that lens should be

"SIZE MATTERS":cool:



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moltengold
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Jul 15, 2011 18:47 as a reply to  @ jhayesvw's post |  #13

nice choice mr Rivest :)
and nice photo :cool:

the best choice for me now is the
Canon EF 100-400mm f4.5-5.6L IS USM
but is it better and sharper than the
Canon EF 70-300mm f4-5.6L IS USM ?
any one know ?


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amfoto1
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Jul 15, 2011 20:49 |  #14

Rivest wrote in post #12764899 (external link)
QUOTED IMAGE

Lens? What lens? I don't see no lens... or camera for that matter.


Alan Myers (external link) "Walk softly and carry a big lens."
5DII, 7DII, 7D, M5 & others. 10-22mm, Meike 12/2.8,Tokina 12-24/4, 20/2.8, EF-M 22/2, TS 24/3.5L, 24-70/2.8L, 28/1.8, 28-135 IS (x2), TS 45/2.8, 50/1.4, Sigma 56/1.4, Tamron 60/2.0, 70-200/4L IS, 70-200/2.8 IS, 85/1.8, Tamron 90/2.5, 100/2.8 USM, 100-400L II, 135/2L, 180/3.5L, 300/4L IS, 300/2.8L IS, 500/4L IS, EF 1.4X II, EF 2X II. Flashes, strobes & various access. - FLICKR (external link)

  
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JackSw1ss
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Jul 16, 2011 04:53 |  #15

Rivest, don't show the OP such equipment images...he's starting to have POTN reputation of the "buying-all-possible-expensive-gear-around" guy ehehehehe.
In his first thread he almost pulled the trigger on the H4D after someone (while joking) suggested him to buy the hassy ehehehe...

moltengold, just kidding of course...makin some laughs!
;)


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Question about the Focal length multiplier
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