Karl Johnston wrote in post #12895658
I just read the first post too but your customer service skills and etiquette are really bad. What's this have to do at all with their ethnic background? Wouldn't it have made more sense to get the payment settled in the initial consultation, usually I don't get paid in full until a week or two after. Or immediately a week before in full ideally, or half is standard.
What's wrong with his CS skills? He wasn't making a shot at their ethnicity. And as for payment, his original contract had certain guidelines, but he changed them to suit the B&G, which they failed to deliver on.
It is poor taste to ask about $ at the shoot itself with the clients and their family present, - don't argue or ask too many questions, it should all be handled before
This was the intention, but due to the changed terms which the B&G insisted and agreed on, it had to be brought up. Otherwise people walk all over you.
What's the big deal with having a complaint over the lunch room? Hell I'd be happy to scarf down a sub in the bathroom.
There wasn't an argument. He was only slightly taken aback because this is unusual in most weddings. He wanted to be in the same room so as not to miss a moment. Duh.
Ebwly wrote in post #12895643Now I only read the 1st page, dunno about the rest of the crap that went on, but to me, there is nothing professional about the above. Being who you are and what you do, you have a lot more experience than the couple, who are expected to behave erratically/a bit out of the norm/fussy on their big day. It is your job as a professional photographer to keep your cool and maybe step back a bit and view this from their perspective, and not hound them about payment etc. on their special day.
Again, failure to read. This was the choice of the B&G. He shouldn't have to "hound" them (which he didn't, it was a polite inquiry at the first opportunity of downtime) for something that they agreed to fulfill.
and in regards to deleting the photos? You're not 8. That's not the way to get back at them. whether they annoyed you or not, paid you/ even if they insulted you, what gives you the right to destroy the only pics of their special day? [B]Sorry to break your bubble, but you're not that important to be able to make that decision for them
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He's important enough to have been chosen as the head photographer -_- While I agree that the notion of deleting isn't appropriate, I don't think his intention is to get back at them. He just wants to get paid, and wants to get this over with (and the images to the bride as well. It's not her fault the husband is reneging on the payment contract.
If I was in your shoes, I'd send them a CD with all the pics, and maybe 3 or 5 which are edited and finished. If you take the high road, apologise and maybe say that both sides are at fault, it is likely that they will be more encouraged to work out a solution with you after seeing the pics. If not, so be it. Thats the way you should carry out a business, all businesses are about sacrifice. Learn and move on.
See below. He mentioned in the thread that he already sacrificed by changing his original contract and terms/schedule of payment, which he had a gut feeling about and his gut feeling turned out to be for a reason.
also, speaking from someone who studies law and knows about contracts, unless you have a clause in your contract that entitles you to destroy the photos if they don't pay, not only will you never get your money back, they could also counter-sue you to recover the damages from the lost images.
Not sure about any clauses, but you're right. I wouldn't condone deletion of images. Makes no sense.
one last point, I may be wrong, but from your title and post it seems like you're basing the conduct of the B&G on the fact that they are asian. No matter whether they are asian/white/black/pink/transparent, people are people, and the way they act is not reflective of their ethnic background. Having the correct attitude will get a lot more clients in the future.
Again, he WASN'T. If you read, you'd see that he was merely referring to the B&G in that manner when they themselves bestowed it. Although I must admit I thought the same thing when I saw the title.
Ebwly wrote in post #12895713Glad there are at least some others on here who share my viewpoint. All this time of court action/hardballing clients will not get the OP anywhere in regards to payment.
Initially of course I wouldn't hand over the product. but having reached this stage, where the only option is court action/giving them the product, of course I would give them the product. It gives a much better chance of resolution, and you lose a lot less money than hiring a lawyer.
I'm only an amateur photographer, so I have no idea how much he charges, but for the purposes, lets say he charges $2000 for the complete package? trust me, a lawyers fee will reach that amount very quickly if you pursue it all the way to court.
This is apparent.
No, selective reading. page one tells you a man has been murdered. I don't need the rest of the 500 pages to work out if he is dead or not. Likewise, the OP's post gave me a fairly good indication of how he handled the situation. Having read the rest, I stand by what I said. there is nothing professional about the way he acted initially. the B&G can be excused for the initial conduct. He cannot. His problems are the result of his attitude on the wedding day.
No, lazy. Coming from someone who is studying law, I thought one would read all that's presented before making any assumptions or judgement. You would see that your concerns were addressed.
try to resolve:play nice, give the B&G a few edited pics, along with all the unsorted pictures. If the OP really has skill, the B&G and parents will love the images, and want the rest edited, and they will happily pay you the money.
Or they will play the role of "I want this picture edited, I need to see how this looks before I pay." Or even worse, take all the images and run. The unedited pictures will probably be just fine for them, or they'll get them edited (themselves or someone else for cheaper). If they would "happily pay him the money," they would have done it already.
Lol..I am speaking from myself. I study law. I thought the sentence structure was clear enough.
Thats the business plan, and the right way to run a business, let you products speak for themselves. If not, improve you're skills,( i saw the OOF image) learn your lesson, move on. I mean come-on, its not all about money. Business image you cannot buy.
Big words coming from a self-proclaimed amateur photographer. Stick to "you're" law school, you wouldn't make it as a pro.
KenjiS wrote in post #12896652Sounds like there of course could just honestly be a hair of cultural dissonance going on...I dunno if your clients are intentionally being rude or not honestly
Possibly.
No offense to the OP, It does seem like while theres blame on their side theres a bit on yours, the bathroom thing "feels" spiteful, even if you didnt intend it that way, as does the facebook updating...
Unless the B&G saw him doing this, I doubt that this is a factor.
I didnt read through all of the thread at this point (only to like page 5)
Seems like a pattern. lol
As for payment, I dunno, I can understand both sides of this, if i was contracting out for any form of work id want a full bill of the final cost, I'd offer a pretty decent deposit up front to show im serious, but i'd withhold any form of final payment until after work was completed and delivered to my satisfaction, Because this, as a client, gives me a position of bargaining in case if you, as the contractor, do not do something to my satisfaction, and i'd likely make sure in writing that any work is subject to my review, After all, What if (And this is just in general, Not you OP) the contractor completely botches the job and comes out with 500 images that look like they were shot on an iphone...Thats clearly not what I paid for...
As for being delivered, in most industries (especially this one), payment is required in FULL before delivery, which ensures that the images are of priority to be delivered. Most professionals are/should be willing to work with the B&G if something isn't to their satsifaction. Also, they hired him not because he had a cool name or just because he had a fancy camera. I'm assuming they hired him based off good reviews/testimonials, and a great portfolio. So the likelihood of him botching the images (save for the OOF image he posted) is slight.
However as a contractor, i can understand wanting a large chunk of the money up front to avoid collection issues, but i would try to understand the client desiring to merely give a deposit upfront, However as a contractor, i would not do any work without any form of deposit up front, and i'd make it clear to the client that no photos will be snapped and no work will be done if im not paid, if they insist on paying me on the wedding day, then I would likely tell them i think thats inadvisable, if they insisted and i really needed the work, then id inform them that before a single photo is snapped i expect to be paid, and if they do not comply with that, then i will go home after 2 hours
His mistake as he said was not going home (or not being persistent enough before the day started). But then if he left, that would also look bad to the B&G and any other potential future clients among the guests.
-edit- and i'd also talk to the clients and ask them to PLEASE instruct their guests to please kindly stay out of my way while im doing work, tell them that i am being paid for the photographs and i do not appreciate "weekend warriors" getting in my way and interfering with my work
Some people do this, some people don't. As someone else in the thread noted, this attitude can be taken the wrong way. You never know where a potential future client could be, and the handling of the so-called "weekend warriors" could be seen abrasive by some.
