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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Weddings & Other Family Events Talk 
Thread started 18 Jul 2011 (Monday) 16:37
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First all-Asian wedding - a complete disaster!

 
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SMP_Homer
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Aug 08, 2011 11:06 |  #346

Nismode wrote in post #12896746 (external link)
As for being delivered, in most industries (especially this one), payment is required in FULL before delivery, which ensures that the images are of priority to be delivered. Most professionals are/should be willing to work with the B&G if something isn't to their satsifaction. Also, they hired him not because he had a cool name or just because he had a fancy camera. I'm assuming they hired him based off good reviews/testimonials, and a great portfolio. So the likelihood of him botching the images (save for the OOF image he posted) is slight.

I don't have any reviews or testimonials on my website, and this couple never asked for that... and really, that's the only thing they never asked for...
1st meeting was just like all other meetings - brought my iPad with a dozen or so weddings (each wedding has 30-40 images) and another 6 engagement sessions (each with 20 or so images), and that meeting ended with them wanting to see more samples from individual weddings.
2nd meeting had me bring in more samples from a few weddings they had pointed out on my iPad. This is when they brought up their terms. They're not the first to do it, and won't be the last. When someone wants to vary the payment terms, I don't flatly say no. I ask for their reasons. Then I point out my reasons for my terms. If they still insist at that point, I tell them that I will agree to their terms if they also agree to strike out that delivery is within 4 weeks. Usually by this point they now like my terms. But the odd few have no problems with removing that, and insist on their terms.
3rd meeting was out of the blue... about 6 weeks prior to wedding, groom asked to see a newer wedding, in full. He needed an asap meeting on it, told him that the week was too full to get that done for the day/time he wanted to meet. I was 15 minutes late getting to that meeting, coming back from an e-shoot (he knew ahead of time that the date/time he was available was either tight or not available). He was disappointed that I didn't have a newer shoot to show him, but I explained in person as I did in the email earlier in the week. No time to do it, and didn't want to carry my iPad on an e-shoot.
So we set the 4th appointment then for the following weekend. Loaded up the iPad, and this time they were both there. Went through the shots, etc... sorta like the 1st/2nd meeting with them...
there was a 5th get together... they called me the morning after they were guests at a wedding. The B&G at this wedding had issues with their photographer. They explained that hours were up, and photogs were leaving, and weren't willing to negotiate a longer stay (but now I wonder if this is true or not...). Explained not to worry about that with me. For that meeting, they also asked that I bring a camera so I could take some pics of them. I brought a camera, but he was in rough shape from the previous night's wedding, so no pics were taken, but they were happy to see it...

I usually end up with 2-4 modded terms every year, and this is the 1st time there's been an issue.
I don't think I will flatly say no next time someone asks, but I do think I need to convince them to accept my terms...


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SMP_Homer
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Aug 08, 2011 11:06 |  #347

spider87 wrote in post #12897049 (external link)
HO HO HO! I just wanted to let you know you're currently on the naughty list and you won't be getting anything for Christmas this year unless you send a DVD with all of the pictures on it to the B&G! Don't worry, you'll get your money in your presents!

I don't have a chimney, so I'd be SOL!


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SMP_Homer
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Aug 08, 2011 12:16 |  #348

2 calls from the Father of the Bride... I didn't answer, and he left no messages...


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mpineda10
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Aug 08, 2011 12:24 |  #349

man ive been following this since the beginning and hopefully you get your money


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SMP_Homer
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Aug 08, 2011 12:36 |  #350

mpineda10 wrote in post #12897414 (external link)
man ive been following this since the beginning and hopefully you get your money

as many have said early on, they will eventually want their pictures, and I'll get that money...
it's the games and general waste of time in between that's both entertaining (more for you guys than me) and not necessary...


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Ebwly
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Aug 08, 2011 12:37 |  #351

Nismode wrote in post #12896746 (external link)
Again, he WASN'T. If you read, you'd see that he was merely referring to the B&G in that manner when they themselves bestowed it. Although I must admit I thought the same thing when I saw the title.

title: first all-asian wedding - a complete disaster. If it were me, I'd post it with wedding - complete disaster. The phrase all-asian neither adds any meaning nor any information to the title. But..eh some people feel like they must always lay the blame on the ethnicity of others rather than accepting that as a collective humans all make mistakes. Each to their own I guess...

This is apparent.

No, lazy. Coming from someone who is studying law, I thought one would read all that's presented before making any assumptions or judgement. You would see that your concerns were addressed.

Common misconception. Law is about the dealing of huge amounts to information, and using your knowledge of the legal system to filter out the irrelevant and only apply that which is needed. Let me tell you, clients talk a lot of bs to justify themselves in front of the law, and many times we have to tell them to stop talking...as they keep justifying themselves and we know the case will not succeed that way.

Or they will play the role of "I want this picture edited, I need to see how this looks before I pay." Or even worse, take all the images and run. The unedited pictures will probably be just fine for them, or they'll get them edited (themselves or someone else for cheaper). If they would "happily pay him the money," they would have done it already.

Yes...because you have thought this out so well and you think everybody is as cold and heartless and won't respond to kindness and compassion. I may be young and still at uni, and probably not have as much life experience as you, but might I recommend a book called How to win friends and influence people? there is a principle called apologising to others which in most cases solves the problem by allowing them to take the higher ground.


Big words coming from a self-proclaimed amateur photographer. Stick to "you're" law school, you wouldn't make it as a pro.

Again thank you. such kind words which so accurately reflect your character...word of advice: if you want to cast doubt on someone's claims, you want to put the apostrophe marks around "law school." makes more sense that way.


Possibly.

Unless the B&G saw him doing this, I doubt that this is a factor.

Seems like a pattern. lol

Yes I didn't read the rest. like I said before, the OP's first post was pretty indicative of his character. I'm sure you enjoy reading through mindless posts of each individual development waiting with bated breath on whether a check bounced or not. Unfortunately, as you kindly mentioned before, being an amateur photographer I don't have the time/effort, and would rather be outside taking photos or lawyering. Sorry. won't be arguing on this anymore. have a lovely day.

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Aug 08, 2011 13:49 |  #352

SMP_Homer wrote in post #12897495 (external link)
as many have said early on, they will eventually want their pictures, and I'll get that money...
it's the games and general waste of time in between that's both entertaining (more for you guys than me) and not necessary...

Well, thanks for keeping us updated. It is entertaining for us, but I'd hate to be in your shoes.

Knowing myself, I probably would have caved and given them something by now, though after reading this thread I'm realizing that's likely not the best course of action.


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Aug 08, 2011 14:15 |  #353

No way you can you cave no matter how it unfolded or no matter who was right or wrong. Remember at one point the father said I will pay you personally when we get the pictures and are "totally" satisfied with them (or something like that). That will never, ever happen. I would never delete the images, stop all correspondence and move on with my life until I got cash in hand or the cheque cleared. No more talk.

The OP will always have another wedding to shoot but the bride will only have one. Well technically only one. They will want images one day.


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Aug 08, 2011 14:19 |  #354

digital paradise wrote in post #12898046 (external link)
No way you can you cave no matter how it unfolded or no matter who was right or wrong. Remember at one point the father said I will pay you personally when we get the pictures and are "totally" satisfied with them (or something like that). That will will never, ever happen. I would never delete the images, stop all correspondence and move on with my life until I got cash in hand or the cheque cleared. No more talk.

The OP will always have another wedding to shoot but the bride will only have one. Well technically only one. They will want images one day.

+1 My sentiments exactly. For the sake of his integrity and everybody else's business, OP can't cave. He should just keep the pictures and let these people simmer until they realize they won't be getting them if they don't pay and, if it's important enough to them, they'll pay eventually. I can't believe these people saying he should give them the pictures. They don't seem to understand that these pictures have a value and, so far, these people have proven they have little/no plans to pay. If OP gives up the pictures, the people will have gotten exactly what they wanted.


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Aug 08, 2011 15:34 |  #355

You are dealing with one or more of the following:

Control freaks
Manipulators
Just Plain Nuts

Unfortunately they are holding the gold and you are holding inventory that you don't want and it's likely to stay that way.


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Aug 08, 2011 15:42 |  #356

john-in-japan wrote in post #12884979 (external link)
Send them your best shot, registered mail, 6 X 7 with a watermark that reads "all wedding photos will be deleted if no full payment by (fill in the date). And then follow through.
Time to close the door on them. Maybe they will hire you to shoot their divorce?
John

Hey OP, i've read this entire thread and it sucks to hear how these clients are goofing around like this.

I love the approach given in the quoted text. Awesomely vindictive and provides complete closure to the issue (w/o compensation however). Not the worst idea if you find that they are giving up on you.

It could be that these people are just sourcing photos from the billion+1 guests that tried to trample you while taking their own photos.


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Aug 08, 2011 15:52 |  #357

SMP_Homer wrote in post #12897370 (external link)
2 calls from the Father of the Bride... I didn't answer, and he left no messages...

Did you intentionally miss them or did you return to your phone and see them? Are you planning to call back, or are you staying by your word of only dealing with the Bride and Groom (the signers of the contract)?


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Aug 08, 2011 15:55 |  #358

Nismode wrote in post #12898588 (external link)
Did you intentionally miss them or did you return to your phone and see them? Are you planning to call back, or are you staying by your word of only dealing with the Bride and Groom (the signers of the contract)?

I didn't answer mainly because I should only deal with bride and groom at this point. It is possible that the bride is calling from that number, but if that were the case, I would only call back if she were to leave a message. Whoever it was, I am assuming the father, did not leave a message. Both calls were one right after the other. No message, no call back from me.


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Aug 08, 2011 17:03 as a reply to  @ SMP_Homer's post |  #359

This js getting out of hand now.

Email them or send a recorded delivery letter. Stating that you are a professional and will uphold your end of the bargain, process the images to your usual standard once full payment has been made otherwie he is in breach of your contract.

You aint going to get a referral from this guy anyway...

I've not read the entire thread but sounds like a bit of a meal has been made more so from them thinking they can behave like this.

Once you've said your peice state the images will be kept no longer than what the contract says and no futher communication until monies are received.

You are in charge here, not them...


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dariussutherland
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Aug 08, 2011 17:08 |  #360

Just read a bit more and I think in then end you should learn from this.Next time get a deposit and the rest of the money a week or month before the date and have all this in a contract. NO money NO workie


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