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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Weddings & Other Family Events Talk 
Thread started 18 Jul 2011 (Monday) 16:37
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First all-Asian wedding - a complete disaster!

 
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smyke
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Aug 13, 2011 11:24 |  #466

I have followed this thread from day one and sure hope that Homer gets his money soon.

To the impatient ones: this is strictly his business how he handles it and he is not obligated to put closure to it simply because some of us may be tired of same old info with no new developments. I am sure he would love to be done with it long time ago but if he was advised by his lawyer friend that this is the way to do it why do some of us feel the need to push him into a legal action?
He is patiently waiting as per advice he got, doesn't post with nonsense and its just other forum members inquiring.
I am not a lawyer but as someone has mentioned earlier suing them may not give him the proper closure he is looking for (payment in full) anyways.

Let's leave the poor guy alone and let him handle it the way he sees fit.


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nathancarter
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Aug 13, 2011 12:30 |  #467

Ebwly wrote in post #12927743 (external link)
A contract is a contract, and any breach of it's terms will amount in a court action for specific performance. Unless...of course you don't want to raise a court action because you know that you might lose...

This has already been discussed in the thread. Winning in court is not the same as getting paid.

At best: he wins and gets paid in full (including reimbursement for legal fees IF that was in the contract), but has to spend hours upon hours fighting the legal battle, and still has to process and deliver the photos, and the client won't like them because there's so much bad blood.

At worst: he loses, doesn't get paid, still has to process and deliver the photos, and creates so much bad publicity for himself that he has trouble getting future contracts.

Most likely scenario: he wins, doesn't get paid because the B&G have no money, has to pay all the legal fees himself (so he's losing money on the whole deal), spends countless hours doing legal battle instead of real work, still has to process and deliver the photos, and just creates a ton of bad publicity for himself.

If you've read the thread, you know that he has better things to do than drag this through the legal system - that is, real work for other (paying?) clients, and maybe a vacation. The only potential good outcome of a legal battle is CLOSURE to this whole scenario. But, it won't be very good closure if he has to chase down every weekly $50 payment and put a lien on the B&G's car in order to collect.


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cdifoto
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Aug 13, 2011 13:25 |  #468

I agree that a lawsuit would be premature and probably silly, but I also think the whole "bad press" thing is overblown. People need to stop being too scared to stand up for themselves. Not knowing how to establish and enforce terms is one of many reasons a lot of SBOs fail.


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Nomofica
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Aug 13, 2011 14:30 |  #469

This whole premise of this thread is why I explicitly state in my contract that I must get paid before I work, if I happen to do work before being paid then there is a late payment interest, and in the event of litigation the client pays all legal and court fees.


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Jimconnerphoto
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Aug 13, 2011 16:11 |  #470

Nomofica wrote in post #12929294 (external link)
This whole premise of this thread is why I explicitly state in my contract that I must get paid before I work, if I happen to do work before being paid then there is a late payment interest, and in the event of litigation the client pays all legal and court fees.

This has been stated by many others, have none of you every changed terms in your contracts?
I know they are there for a reason but I am guilty of it occassionally. Especially if it means getting the work or not.


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cdifoto
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Aug 14, 2011 01:48 |  #471

zagiace wrote in post #12929680 (external link)
This has been stated by many others, have none of you every changed terms in your contracts?
I know they are there for a reason but I am guilty of it occassionally. Especially if it means getting the work or not.

I used to but it always bit me in the ass...especially the payment terms. Nowadays I'll change just about anything except those.

What good is getting the work if the client ends up not paying? When you start changing pament terms to get a job, the client can tell you're desperate, opening up an opportunity to push more. Consider yourself lucky if they don't.


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memoriesoftomorrow
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Aug 14, 2011 02:22 |  #472

zagiace wrote in post #12929680 (external link)
This has been stated by many others, have none of you every changed terms in your contracts?
I know they are there for a reason but I am guilty of it occassionally. Especially if it means getting the work or not.

Nope... the only terms I have changed have been when a client was specifically wanting their photographs not to be used for marketing etc.

100% upfront or I don't work... plain and simple.


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dynamitetony
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Aug 14, 2011 03:00 |  #473

I have just read through every page of this thread.

OP. i totally agree with you and you have more patients than i would have had ....

How much money are we talking here... ??

This couple are just taking the ****

I would probablly have told them to get stuffed by now

totally disgustting of a couple to behave like this.


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cdifoto
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Aug 14, 2011 03:59 |  #474

dynamitetony wrote in post #12931807 (external link)
I would probablly have told them to get stuffed by now

Tell a client that and you can DEFINITELY kiss your final payment goodbye. You don't EVER want to close the door completely.


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dynamitetony
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Aug 14, 2011 04:09 |  #475

cdifoto wrote in post #12931899 (external link)
Tell a client that and you can DEFINITELY kiss your final payment goodbye. You don't EVER want to close the door completely.


that is why i asked how much money we are talking here

if the amount of money is the same as he would charge to sit down and edit all the photos, then he hasnt lost anything

i know telling a client to get stuffed isnt the answer, i was just a bit mad after reading the thread (im calmer now lol)

but i think there are times in life when you have to cut your losses and walk away

im not sure that this is one of those times (or not) but this pair are really pushing it


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Nomofica
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Aug 14, 2011 06:04 |  #476

zagiace wrote in post #12929680 (external link)
This has been stated by many others, have none of you every changed terms in your contracts?
I know they are there for a reason but I am guilty of it occassionally. Especially if it means getting the work or not.

I meant to reply to this earlier but got busy.

No, I never change my terms when it comes to this. The times I change my payment terms depend on the photo shoot I am doing (regular portraits, weddings, photos for friends and/or their families - obviously if I'm asked a week out from the projected shoot date, I'll take the money day of). Only other terms I change are rate of pay (this one is only for friends/family) and copyright usage (stays as my copyright on my contract, and then a signed amendment to the contract is attached stating that the client has full rights - but only if they pay the premium for it). Some other minor and completely irrelevant clauses may be altered slightly.

When I perform my contracted duties (show up, shoot, edit, whatever it is), I expect to be compensated for my time and effort. Pay up front or no photos for you. If you don't like the work after the fact (which I haven't come across yet), I forfeit all but the retainer fee.


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Aug 14, 2011 06:39 |  #477

<<Originally Posted by dynamitetony
that is why i asked how much money we are talking here

if the amount of money is the same as he would charge to sit down and edit all the
photos, then he hasnt lost anything>>

from the OP's website, his base package is $1199 (CDN). His deluxe package is $1899 and includes a second shooter. Albums, coffee tabel books are extra.


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Southswede
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Aug 14, 2011 08:46 |  #478

I'll be very surprised if the OP gets all the money due to him.....




  
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Aug 14, 2011 11:33 |  #479

cdifoto wrote in post #12904222 (external link)
OP, I think what you should do is create a PayPal link they can click on to pay the remaining balance. That's their exact and only way to pay, and they and you would both have electronic proof that it was paid or unpaid.

Then you can tell them straight. Resolve this by paying with this link. If you don't pay with this link then it's not resolved, if you do pay with this link then it is resolved.

That's as binary (true/false, on/off) as you can get and no one can refute that. There is nothing to arrange, no emails to be sent back and forth, no phone calls needed. Just click the link and pay.

The OP read this and then discussed it with his lawyer friend. The lawyer friend advises against it as it wasn't in the contract. Not being paid also wasn't in the contract.

I am afraid as CDI has pointed out it is time for the OP to find a spine.

Pay the 2nd check in and wait for it not to get cleared. Then it is really quite simple. Send an email to the client explaining that when payment is made (including the paypal link), then work will commence on the photos and send a copy of the email via registered post. Until then no further communication will be entered in to.

Someone mentioned earlier that the client had the gold (as in payment) - err no, the OP holds the gold. The client either ponies up the cash for the gold, or it stays on the OPs HD.

Until you have actually stated that no further communication will be entered into (& stuck with it) you will not get paid.


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Roy ­ Mathers
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Aug 14, 2011 11:35 |  #480

It would appear that this thread is now going round in circles.




  
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