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FORUMS Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon G-series Digital Cameras 
Thread started 21 Jul 2011 (Thursday) 12:41
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OK, I would benefit from the knowledge of others.

 
Phoenixkh
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Jul 21, 2011 12:41 |  #1

I am trying to learn how to use the equipment I now own, so I tried an experiment today. I picked up a Slik focusing rail for a great price on eBay. It's not fancy but after I cleaned it up a bit and lubricated the slides, it works well.

I also picked up an Elpro 4 at a great price, so I have the Elpro 3 and 4, plus a Raynox DCR-1541. I'm trying to learn how to combine the three lenses.

Here's the set up:

IMAGE: http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6024/5961698022_dcc80f6eb1_b.jpg
The DCR-1541 with the 3 and 4.
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The Elpro 3 and 4
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Just the Elpro 3
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Kim (the male variety) Canon 1DX2 | 1D IV | 16-35 f/4 IS | 24-105 f/4 IS | 100L IS macro | 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II | 100-400Lii | 50 f/1.8 STM | Canon 1.4X III
RRS tripod and monopod | 580EXII | Cinch 1 & Loop 3 Special Edition | Editing Encouraged

  
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Phoenixkh
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Jul 21, 2011 12:47 |  #2

Sorry for the out of focus shot with the 3 and 4.

My questions: I see the slight difference in zoom, but not what I was expecting. The distance to the subject was greater with the DRC-1541 and I can see the advantage to that when trying to capture bugs, etc.

Overall, I'd have to say, I'm a bit surprised there isn't as much difference between the 3 setups. John Baker has posted that zoom chart several times, but I don't seem to be smart enough to fully understand it.

So, if only one has any suggestions on how I could better use these 4 pieces of equipment, I'd appreciate it.


Kim (the male variety) Canon 1DX2 | 1D IV | 16-35 f/4 IS | 24-105 f/4 IS | 100L IS macro | 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II | 100-400Lii | 50 f/1.8 STM | Canon 1.4X III
RRS tripod and monopod | 580EXII | Cinch 1 & Loop 3 Special Edition | Editing Encouraged

  
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hihohito
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Jul 21, 2011 13:10 |  #3

Hi Phoenixkh
I'm like you still building my system and learning. I just found out the elpro's are Leica lenses. Yesterday my son get me a nifty fifty and now I have to find out what possibility's that give's me. I need to go from 58 to 52 for the lens. What do you have on you G 12?




  
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Phoenixkh
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Jul 21, 2011 13:19 |  #4

hihohito,

I use the Lensmate system to add on lenses to the G12. http://www.lensmateonl​ine.com/store/g10.html (external link)

Many on this site use the much less expensive Chinese imports. I have to admit, I ordered one a while back for $7, including shipping. The tolerances are much looser than the Lensmate, but the price is right.

That will get you to 58mm. To use another size thread, you'll need a step down or step up ring.... the first number is the number closest to the camera...so if you want to go from 58mm to 52mm, you'll need a 58mm to 52mm Step DOWN ring.

The nifty fifty won't work as a regular lens on the G12, but many have reversed it and used it as a micro lens. I'm sure they'd gladly advise you so you can accomplish this.


Kim (the male variety) Canon 1DX2 | 1D IV | 16-35 f/4 IS | 24-105 f/4 IS | 100L IS macro | 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II | 100-400Lii | 50 f/1.8 STM | Canon 1.4X III
RRS tripod and monopod | 580EXII | Cinch 1 & Loop 3 Special Edition | Editing Encouraged

  
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defante
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Jul 21, 2011 13:23 |  #5

From what I've understood, the diopters should go from strongest to weakest from the camera and then the telephoto on the end. I couldn't quite tell what order you had them in from your pic, but this is how I would have them.

Camera - Elpro 3 (+1.66) - Elpro 4 (+0.75) - Telephoto


~David
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Phoenixkh
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Jul 21, 2011 13:36 |  #6

defante,

Thanks...I did set them up that way... just as you described. I thought there would be more of a difference. I'm not sure what i was expecting.


Kim (the male variety) Canon 1DX2 | 1D IV | 16-35 f/4 IS | 24-105 f/4 IS | 100L IS macro | 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II | 100-400Lii | 50 f/1.8 STM | Canon 1.4X III
RRS tripod and monopod | 580EXII | Cinch 1 & Loop 3 Special Edition | Editing Encouraged

  
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defante
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Jul 21, 2011 13:41 |  #7

Just remembered theres a setting in the menu for using a telephoto lens. Have you tried playing with that setting. I don't have my camera with me atm so I can't tell you exactly what setting it is.


~David
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denncald
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Jul 21, 2011 13:53 |  #8

defante wrote in post #12799551 (external link)
Just remembered theres a setting in the menu for using a telephoto lens. Have you tried playing with that setting. I don't have my camera with me atm so I can't tell you exactly what setting it is.

I don't have this exact setup, and have not tried using my close-up lenses with my tele converter (all Canon). The photo showed him using a tripod, and rail, so image stabilization should be turned off, per Canon's recommendation. There is a chance the image stabilization could struggle trying to find a correction when none is required. As long as you use either a remote trigger or the built-in timer to trigger, nothing should move. So, do not make the setting change in the menu to indicate you have a tele converter attached, since that is to help the camera adjust image stabilization.

Dennis

PS I recently purchased a Samsung NX100, so that has been taking me away from my G9 and G11. I'll probably be selling my G9 stuff... boo hoo.




  
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Phoenixkh
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Jul 21, 2011 14:24 |  #9

Dennis,

You'll be keeping your G11, right? So we'll still "see" you from time to time? I sure hope so.

ok... so the tele-converter option on the menu is a image stabilization tool? I was wondering what it actually did. I've had it both on and off... I turn off IS when set up on my tripod.

What does the tele-converter menu option do? I did notice on page 178 of the G12 manual, it says: "If [IS Mode] is set to [Off], it is not necessary to make converter settings." (I had to look it up a few seconds ago..... I didn't have it memorized, obviously)

I will say this.. the photograph I took of the setup for the experiment came out more clear than the photos with the G12.... and it was shot in AV mode with a Canon A640, flash enabled and handheld.Flash sure makes a difference inside and with some macro shots we've seen here. I plan on getting a 580II later this year. I already have the Canon SB-E2 bracket that I purchased. Cart before the horse, I realize... but the price was about half of what it was selling elsewhere.

I sure have a lot to learn, but I'll keep plugging away.

Enjoy your new camera, Dennis.


Kim (the male variety) Canon 1DX2 | 1D IV | 16-35 f/4 IS | 24-105 f/4 IS | 100L IS macro | 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II | 100-400Lii | 50 f/1.8 STM | Canon 1.4X III
RRS tripod and monopod | 580EXII | Cinch 1 & Loop 3 Special Edition | Editing Encouraged

  
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geoff ­ 0795
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Jul 21, 2011 14:46 |  #10

Thats about what I would expect from the elpro 4,its a lovely lens for portraits at full zoom,but only a .75 dioptre.
The setting for a converter adjusts the way the is works,and so is not needed for tripod work,as said by others .


http://www.flickr.com/​photos/63506494@N04/ (external link)

  
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John ­ Baker
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Jul 21, 2011 15:34 |  #11

Hi Kim, you have most of the answers here, I will try to add a bit... The problem is you are trying to combine a couple of techniques, lets work through them.

Out the box the camera has a nice zoom from 28- 140mm. The normal optimum close focus is at the wide end, but at the cost of working distance, so basically you are right on top of the subject.

Using close up lenses allows you to go to the long end of the zoom and focus closer, depending on the strength of the dioptre, the greater the value, the greater the magnification, but at the cost of your working distance. Therefore for traditional close up work, most people tend to go for filters in a range of +2, +48 and +8 as these complement the zoom range of the basic camera.

A +0.75 dioptre is far more useful when you have a much higher level of zoom. So for example some other compacts have lenses which zoom out beyond 300mm. The problem is that at these focal lengths, the cameras and lenses do not focus very close. Therefore by adding this sort of filter, it allows the lens to focus a lot closer, so you gain a good level of magnification from the extra focal length, but also maintain a good working distance. The other benefit of this technique is that it is a way of reducing the impact of the excessive depth of field that compact camera produce, long lenses have much narrower depth of fields and may be useful when you want to isolate a subject from its background, great for portraits when you can remove or reduce the impact of distracting backgrounds.

OK so now bring in the teleconverter, the Raynox DCR 154 is a 1.54x converter, which takes the normal zoom to 43mm to 216mm, which is not extreme, however, going into the digital zoom (or crop!!!) will take this up to 862mm equivalent. While I would not recommend working at 20x (it works very well, but needs good technique to use successfully) however, a small bit of digital zoom will go a long way, the camera normally works with a 5x zoom range, extending this to x7 will take the max focal length to 302mm, fitting the +0.75 will now allow this lens to focus at (same old formula 100cm / 0.75 =) 133cm or 52 inches which is very useful. The problem is that the depth of field gets very shallow, so the tripod and focus rail is a great way to go as this will allow you to get better results and far more keepers, the down side is that you lose the flexibility of being able to move quickly and follow a subject around a bush, but you can get lots of simple flash on the subject.

As a rule of thumb I try to limit stacking my filter to 2 x units, if you want max magnification use the DCR - 250 and the Elpro3, fit the strongest unit first, plus a nudge of digital zoom if needed.

You may find that some of these bits are not totally compatible and you will need to experiment, you may find that some combinations will produce far better results than others, there may not be any individual problems with bits of kit, but when combined you can get interesting effects. It get far more complex when you are using wide-angle adaptors, but that is another story.

Hopefully this helps, the bottom line is that it is not all about getting the max magnification, but it is about understanding what the different bits will do.


John Baker
Canon 1D Mk III plus IIN, G11, Siggy 12-24, Nifty Fifty, 24-105L, 35-350L, 400L, Tamron 180 Macro, EX430/550/580 & ST-E2

  
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Phoenixkh
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Jul 21, 2011 15:53 |  #12

Thanks all... You have collectedly given me direction for further experiments. I did try the tele-converter with the Elpro 4 combo outside the other day. It changed the distance where I was able to get a sharp focus, but when I figured that out, I did get some sharp images.

One additional question. With the G12 and the equipment shown in my signature, does anyone have recommendations for taking shots of the moon, including the best times, camera settings along with the gear selection?


Kim (the male variety) Canon 1DX2 | 1D IV | 16-35 f/4 IS | 24-105 f/4 IS | 100L IS macro | 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II | 100-400Lii | 50 f/1.8 STM | Canon 1.4X III
RRS tripod and monopod | 580EXII | Cinch 1 & Loop 3 Special Edition | Editing Encouraged

  
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John ­ Baker
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Jul 22, 2011 02:18 |  #13

You will need to remove the close up filters as they will not add anything - I have most success taking moon shots just before it gets dark. I then use the biggest converter I have, go to max digital zoom, get the whole thing on the tripod, you may have to do manual focus. Then experiment and see what you get, it is a good time to experiment with the Manual setting, try to keep you ISO low. Taking when it is dark gets a bit more complex.

Check out this web site, one of many, no connection
http://home.hiwaay.net …ol/Astro/moon/h​owtophoto/ (external link)

With the table of exposures, he is quoting at f16 so to get to f8 (available on the G), you will have to halve the exposure, eg give it less light, so if it suggest 1/60" you will need to use 1/125".

The rules on the site cover most of what you need to know - quote

RULES FOR PHOTOGRAPHING THE MOON

  • Always use a tripod and cable release (SLR).
  • Use the camera's highest resolution setting (Digital).
  • Photos of the full moon are flat and featureless. For more interesting pictures, photograph the Moon at crescent or quarter phases when the mountains and craters are illuminated from the side and cast shadows.
  • Always bracket exposures since exposure times given by formulas are approximate, varying according to the exact phase of the Moon, atmospheric conditions, etc. To be safe, bracket at one and preferably two stops on both sides of the exposure suggested by the formula.[/I]

quote from http://home.hiwaay.net …ol/Astro/moon/h​owtophoto/ (external link)

---------------
Here is one of mine, apols as I have posted before...

Basic G camera at full 20 x digital zoom (equiv of 560mm in 35mm speak), adaptor tubes and a Raynox DCR-2020 converter, which is 2.2x taking it to 1,232mm.

IMAGE: http://www.jfbclick.com/images/1-JBKitPics/G11-MoonShot-20xPlusRaynox2020-1232mm.jpg

Exposure detail for this was EXIF 1/1,000" at f4.5 ISO 200 and -2 stops compensation.

Kim you will not get this level of magnification out of a 1.54x converter, but you should have some fun!!! :lol:

John Baker
Canon 1D Mk III plus IIN, G11, Siggy 12-24, Nifty Fifty, 24-105L, 35-350L, 400L, Tamron 180 Macro, EX430/550/580 & ST-E2

  
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Phoenixkh
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Jul 22, 2011 04:22 |  #14

Thx John. I'll give it a try.


Kim (the male variety) Canon 1DX2 | 1D IV | 16-35 f/4 IS | 24-105 f/4 IS | 100L IS macro | 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II | 100-400Lii | 50 f/1.8 STM | Canon 1.4X III
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