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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
Thread started 03 Aug 2011 (Wednesday) 09:21
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Legal stuff

 
alexdesign
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Aug 03, 2011 09:21 |  #1

So I see on forums people taking pics of local school bands, night clubs scenery etc. All these pictures have are recognizable faces.

I saw on shutterstock and on other websites in general and read about photography that you have to have a "model release" in order to use a picture/be able to sell it.

How do you go about a model release? Do you present legal paper in night club to strangers and say "here, sign my model release and I'll take a nice picture of you?" Or you just shoot whoever you want and because it's YOUR shot, it becomes your property and you can then distribute that picture as you see fit?

I am trying to learn legal stuff about photography just to know what my restrictions.

Also, if you want to photograph a church from inside or outside, do you need to have their permission to take picts?

Thanks


http://www.flickr.com/​photos/62731114@N02/ (external link)

  
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PhotosGuy
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Aug 03, 2011 09:35 |  #2

YOU LIVE WHERE? In the US...
You have to have a release if you want to use it for commercial purposes. That doesn't mean that you can't sell it, especially for news purposes.

I am trying to learn legal stuff about photography just to know what my restrictions.

Good luck with that! Just because what you do is legal doesn't mean that you can't be sued!

Also, if you want to photograph a church from inside or outside, do you need to have their permission to take picts?

Yes. No. Maybe. Every place can be different.

Legal Rights of Photographers (external link)

I am confused about usage rights, motorsports related question


FrankC - 20D, RAW, Manual everything...
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alexdesign
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Aug 03, 2011 10:24 |  #3

PhotosGuy wrote in post #12869468 (external link)
YOU LIVE WHERE? In the US...

Legal Rights of Photographers (external link)

Thanks but that link is 404 error. No content there.
I know I can be sued even if I follow legal guidelines. Just so as anyone else can be sued or be sued. So how do you go about model release in night club? Do you bring printed papers with you and ask people to sign it?


http://www.flickr.com/​photos/62731114@N02/ (external link)

  
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LWC1496
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Aug 03, 2011 14:15 as a reply to  @ alexdesign's post |  #4

Not a real 404 error, a notice suggests you search and helpfully gives you a box to put your search term in, do that and you could have the doc within 20 secs.


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Iscariotau
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Aug 03, 2011 14:47 |  #5

My understanding is that if you took a photo of me getting my groove on in a nightclub and wanted to sell it to an energy drink company to use as promotional material then you need a model release. This can be obtained after taking the picture but prior to the sale. If you sell it to a news paper to use with an article about the nightclub scene in your state then no model release is required.


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PhotosGuy
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Aug 03, 2011 22:43 |  #6

alexdesign wrote in post #12869757 (external link)
Thanks but that link is 404 error. No content there.

Looks like he changed the site. I fixed the link.

http://www.andrewkanto​r.com …ghts_of_Photogr​aphers.pdf (external link)


FrankC - 20D, RAW, Manual everything...
Classic Carz, Racing, Air Show, Flowers.
Find the light... A few Car Lighting Tips, and MOVE YOUR FEET!
Have you thought about making your own book? // Need an exposure crutch?
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alexdesign
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Aug 04, 2011 04:54 as a reply to  @ PhotosGuy's post |  #7

That was a very informative article. Thanks for the pdf link.
I especially liked : "Carry a voice recorder".

That article reminded me of an accident I had 6 years ago. I visited Simon's mall (local mall builder) and I was there with my 2-year-old son just taking pictures of him and my mother. A security guard rolls in his SUV by me and tells me "You can't take pictures here" - I ask him "why"? - he replies, it's private property. But it was a MALL and I was taking a picture of my son and the wall was just a backdrop.... yet the guard won't leave until I packed up my cheap camera and we drove away..... I thought it was odd experience. Now from this article I know my rights.

I am still a bit confused how do you take a model release if you are trying to sell images of a night club you took for night club to use on their website. People in these places are usually drunk or high and chasing them all over dance floor asking "sign a model release" seems a bit unrealistic.


http://www.flickr.com/​photos/62731114@N02/ (external link)

  
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PhotosGuy
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Aug 04, 2011 08:07 |  #8

images of a night club you took for night club to use on their website.

Someone hired you for that job. Give them the forms & let them get the signatures. They have the advantage of offering a free drink, which takes care of the "value received" problem.


FrankC - 20D, RAW, Manual everything...
Classic Carz, Racing, Air Show, Flowers.
Find the light... A few Car Lighting Tips, and MOVE YOUR FEET!
Have you thought about making your own book? // Need an exposure crutch?
New Image Size Limits: Image must not exceed 1600 pixels on any side.

  
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breal101
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Aug 04, 2011 09:58 |  #9

PhotosGuy wrote in post #12875502 (external link)
Someone hired you for that job. Give them the forms & let them get the signatures. They have the advantage of offering a free drink, which takes care of the "value received" problem.

I agree that the client should be responsible for obtaining the model releases for their own advertising. The value received part isn't true in all states, some states require actual currency to change hands, as little as a dollar, in order to validate a contract.

Further complicating things a testimonial ad, "I drink at Joe's because...", can't be compensated with currency. At least that's what clients tell me. In states that have the currency requirement it may be prudent for the photographer to obtain the release with a dollar payment and then transfer it to the client. This may or not be totally legal either, that's why the devil invented lawyers. :lol:


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Hillbille
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Aug 04, 2011 10:14 as a reply to  @ breal101's post |  #10

It would seem to me that the simplest solution for the particular situation you have described would be to have the club owner/manager sponsor a "Photo Op Night" at the club and require signing releases as part and parcel to "entry" on THAT night. Then everything and everyone is fair game on that particular night and the owner gets all the shots he needs for advertisement and/or web work.

This works especially well for the owners as they routinely ask patrons they KNOW to be on hand and participate and have their best employees scheduled for this particular nights work. The people don't get upset with having a flash go off in their faces and in fact expect it.

Hillbille


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PhotosGuy
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Aug 04, 2011 23:17 |  #11

Hillbille wrote in post #12876175 (external link)
It would seem to me that the simplest solution for the particular situation you have described would be to have the club owner/manager sponsor a "Photo Op Night" at the club and require signing releases as part and parcel to "entry" on THAT night. Then everything and everyone is fair game on that particular night and the owner gets all the shots he needs for advertisement and/or web work.

This works especially well for the owners as they routinely ask patrons they KNOW to be on hand and participate and have their best employees scheduled for this particular nights work. The people don't get upset with having a flash go off in their faces and in fact expect it.

Hillbille

Good idea!


FrankC - 20D, RAW, Manual everything...
Classic Carz, Racing, Air Show, Flowers.
Find the light... A few Car Lighting Tips, and MOVE YOUR FEET!
Have you thought about making your own book? // Need an exposure crutch?
New Image Size Limits: Image must not exceed 1600 pixels on any side.

  
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RDKirk
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Aug 06, 2011 09:55 as a reply to  @ PhotosGuy's post |  #12

I agree that the client should be responsible for obtaining the model releases for their own advertising. The value received part isn't true in all states, some states require actual currency to change hands, as little as a dollar, in order to validate a contract.

All states require permissioni to use someone's image for commercial purposes, but no state requires that permission to be a "contract." Permission is simply permission (some states don't even require it to be written, but it would be stupid not to have it in writing)...there is no requirement in any state for a model release to be a quid pro quo arrangement.

But if you do introduce quid pro quo into your model release to make it an enforceable contract, you must make sure the "valuable consideration" is standard and comensurate with the value to the user of the image. Model releases have been broken in court on the grounds that the model wasn't paid a standard rate for a use that the photographer had anticipated when the model was first approached.

If you're going to pay a model to use in a local newspaper ad, for instance, you'd better pay her the going local rate for a model used in a newspaper ad. If you get the opportunity to shoot a model for a national ad campaign, you'd better pay her a standard professional rate. If it smells to the court anything like you presented yourself as just a GWC taking pictures for fun and paid her only a buck...and then the model sees herself on a billboard, you'll be in court and you will lose.


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