I need a tripod head

Our expectations, which are the minimum one should have, are that our tripod heads will hold our gear safely and securely, without introducing possibility of camera shake. Your expectations appear to be significantly lower. When you've used a quality head, see if you still feel that barely adequate after applying kludges is still good enough. I've probably owned more tripod heads than you've ever used, so I just may possibly have a bit of experience in the area. Buy cheap, buy twice is only too true with any critical bit of camera gear; tripods and heads included. But if you haven't used a good tripod head, how certain can you be that this cheap head you're extolling really is any good, not a disaster waiting to happen?

My expectations are just as you mentioned yours are (although I think the other John's are much higher), and this head meets them. It holds securely and safely and there is no wobble. As said, with any Manfrotto style plates some shimming of the clamp will mostly likely be needed. The focussing screen in your camera also requires shimming, the only difference is they're metal, yet that is perfectly acceptable.

As for how sure it is good, well it works for starters and has for over 2 years with no problems. You don't have to have used better to know if something lesser is good or not, you don't expect someone reviewing a Rebel to have also used a Hassy H4D as well. It's the same with those that can't take criticism on their photos and see "I'd like to see you do better", having experience of the best or doing the best isn't a requirement of having an opinion on something lesser.

I don't care whose plate it is, if it has that much slop in it that you have to use tape to fix it, then it's not very good. I would not waste my time on it.

It works for you. It won't work for me. Like I said, what you describe is exactly what I've experienced by fooling around our using at least 20 ballheads like you describe. If you like that sort of stuff. Great. Enjoy it. At the risk of sounding repetitious, I don't like that sort of stuff. I find it frustrating. I have poorer results. That, to me, is not worth it. Apparently it is worth it to you.

So far, I've been accused of being narrow minded, stupid, assumptive, sarcastic and a few other things by you because I have a different opinion and different expectations than do you. Who do you think is narrow minded, stupid, assumptive or sarcastic in that case? Are we allowed to have different opinions and to have them without being insulted?

Use what you want. I don't care. I think this is junk and won't use it. You love it. So what? Why does it matter so much to you what I think (or what you think for that matter)? Get over it.

J

You're allowed a differing opinion, if you've actually used the product in question. You haven't, and thus you have no say in it's quality or abilities. You are being assumptive and narrow minded by saying it's junk when you have no way of knowing.

What you think doesn't matter to me, it's what you say and how that will affects other's purchases that matters. You honestly shouldn't be posting in this thread at all because you have no experience with the product in question, that is a simple fact and you are wrong.

Can you point me to where it says that those are the rules for this forum and to where it says that you are the arbiter of them?

Why do you care who buys what? Are you the product manager for this ballhead? I'm sure the manufacturer can handle that well enough.

For what it's worth, it also bothers me when people overly positively represent this stuff when they haven't investigated how it works and why and what the physical principles are behind the why. I think that is a much larger problem.

I've spent a lot of time testing ballheads and tripods and quantifying what works better and why and what the aspects are that work for me and what doesn't work for me. I don't have to use this ballhead to understand the problems - there are lots that similar and have exactly the problems you describe. That is the same same as what I've already experienced and it makes no sense to go out and try it again to find out that I don't like it again - especially when a user who loves it describes exactly the same problems.


J.

It's not in the rules, but it damn well should be. Something along the lines of "Don't spread **** about products you haven't used" should suffice. Why do I care? Because it saves people having to spend two or more times the money for something that is the same but with a brand name. If people would rather buy something else that's fine by me, but it's not your place to spread crap about a product so people don't buy it.

I'm not over positively representing it either, I've pointed out the bad and good and if it really was junk I would say so (and I also would have replaced it before now). In the end the words of someone who has experience should be valued over those of someone with no experience.

This is pointless. We differ in our opinions and I'm apparently not allowed to have one that differs from yours. What's more, you're intent on beating it out of me until I agree.

So I'm signing off here. If you want to know my response to your next post, just re-read the ones above here. They'd be the same.

J.

I was about to say I couldn't be bothered with this either, but you've beaten me to it. I'll just reiterate my point anyway, I don't care if you have a differing opinion, I care that you have a baseless opinion. Just make sure you never offer me advice on anything in the future because I'll be sure not to take it and I wouldn't want you to waste your time.

The Ran wrote in post #12975565
I was about to say I couldn't be bothered with this either, but you've beaten me to it. I'll just reiterate my point anyway, I don't care if you have a differing opinion, I care that you have a baseless opinion. Just make sure you never offer me advice on anything in the future because I'll be sure not to take it and I wouldn't want you to waste your time.

I suggest that you reread what you said about your head in your original post:

The Ran wrote in post #12939316
I've got the same one off Ebay, however it didn't say anything about Opteka (I've seen a lot of companies rebranding it) and the lever is smaller. It's okay for the price, holds steady and the plates look to be Manfrotto RC2 copies. The only gripes are there's no separate panning lock and no friction control, it can droop a little when tightening so make sure to hold the top plate when doing the lever up (only a real issue for macro work) and the plates were a little loose which I fixed by putting a couple strips of tape inside the clamping part. One of the main things I like about it is the bubble level, the Manfrotto equivalents don't seem to have that unless you spend a lot more.

So - you assume that the head you have is the same one that was linked to by OP, but it's got a smaller lever and different (or nonexistent) brand name. But you're qualified to comment on the one he posted while nobody else is.

The head you have is prone to sagging if you're not careful when fastening it, by your own statement.

The plates are loose, again by your own words.

John and I have experience with many tripod heads. You have experience with one. Neither of us would accept the flaws you acknowledge in our tripod heads. And you still contend that your standards are as high as ours? Sounds like you, yourself, have described a piece of junk; you are just reluctant to admit it.

I suggest (and this won't be the first time you've been told this) you learn to control your temper and try to behave in a rational manner around here. Inflammatory rants don't do anyone, least of all the poster, any good.

Erm, the head that OP linked to doesn't actually have any Opteka branding, it's just sold by them. I've seen the same head sold by many people and companies with either of the two levers but everything else being the same. So, apart from the lever I have used the same head and am qualified to comment on its quality.

As for the issues I brought up, the sagging or hitching is only evident when I do macros but with everything else it is a non-issue and is also easy enough to deal with. I have heard of other ballheads costing 2 or 3 times as much having the same issue, sometimes to a worse extent (not making assumptions here but going off what I've heard from others that have actually used the products) so it is hardly a consequence of the price. Many people are still happy with this, so yes it would meet the average person's standards.

And the plates being loose, you don't seem to understand just how loose they were. There's literally 2 or 3 strips of tape in there and the tape measure about 0.1mm thick, so at most I've added a 0.3mm shim and that's probably too much. All that shim does is take up any variance between the two plates that I own (which came with the head), I'd say that's a pretty high tolerance. I've actually just measured the two plates with my calipers and there is indeed exactly 0.3mm difference between them.

So, if that isn't up to your standards and qualifies it as junk then you must be displeased with a lot of things in life.

I think I've been very rational too (definition: having or exercising reason, sound judgment, or good sense), in fact I seem to be the only person putting across reasons and proof instead of jsut making assumptions.

The Ran wrote in post #12977975
Erm, the head that OP linked to doesn't actually have any Opteka branding, it's just sold by them. I've seen the same head sold by many people and companies with either of the two levers but everything else being the same. So, apart from the lever I have used the same head and am qualified to comment on its quality.

As for the issues I brought up, the sagging or hitching is only evident when I do macros but with everything else it is a non-issue and is also easy enough to deal with. I have heard of other ballheads costing 2 or 3 times as much having the same issue, sometimes to a worse extent (not making assumptions here but going off what I've heard from others that have actually used the products) so it is hardly a consequence of the price. Many people are still happy with this, so yes it would meet the average person's standards.

And the plates being loose, you don't seem to understand just how loose they were. There's literally 2 or 3 strips of tape in there and the tape measure about 0.1mm thick, so at most I've added a 0.3mm shim and that's probably too much. All that shim does is take up any variance between the two plates that I own (which came with the head), I'd say that's a pretty high tolerance. I've actually just measured the two plates with my calipers and there is indeed exactly 0.3mm difference between them.

So, if that isn't up to your standards and qualifies it as junk then you must be displeased with a lot of things in life.

I think I've been very rational too (definition: having or exercising reason, sound judgment, or good sense), in fact I seem to be the only person putting across reasons and proof instead of jsut making assumptions.

That good. You're happy, I'm happy, we're all happy. Hallelujah. Praise the £20 tripod head, for it is indeed glorious and will lead us from the darkness to the light. Now I'm going to start playing "Kumbaya" and you can join in when you want. How about we stop beating this dead horse and have a friendly sing along?

Don't think this is all about the tripod head, that's only part of it, it's about people putting down gear and thinking it's junk because it's cheap.

The Ran wrote in post #12978403
Don't think this is all about the tripod head, that's only part of it, it's about people putting down gear and thinking it's junk because it's cheap.

The problem is... from your description, it is junk. It is a tripod head. Its job is to hold your camera on the tripod, and do so in a way which will cause as little movement, vibration, sag, droop, sway or what have you, as possible. What you said, in summary, is this:
"It droops a bit unless you hold it tightly, and I had to stick some tape on the plate to make it stop moving."
When talking about any new item, if I have to stick tape on it to make it do its job, its not very good. When talking about a tripod head, its even worse.

When I say it droops a bit, I mean a minuscule bit that won't matter unless you're doing macros (which I do and still manage fine). And when I said I needed to add the tape, if I even said that, I meant I wanted to add the tape. 0.3mm difference hardly necessitates the use of tape, I just noticed the slightest gap between the lever and locking pin and wanted them to be touching and applying pressure to minimise the risk of accidentally undoing it (which would probably never happen, it just seemed like a good idea at the time).

Really those two issues hardly needed mentioning, I guess perhaps I'm too upfront about things and don't want to leave anything out.