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Thread started 19 Aug 2011 (Friday) 03:56
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An old blokes perspective.

 
Yno
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Aug 19, 2011 09:26 as a reply to  @ post 12962441 |  #16

I am not a real heavy poster, and I try to make absolutely sure of my answers before posting them. Possibly why I don't post that many! I have been using cameras somewhat seriously for more years than probably half the members here have been alive, and I consider myself an 'advanced enthusiast' with no desire to be a professional. That being said, I have to agree with the OP. Some of the information here is truly wrong, but defended to the death. I feel that the moderators do a really good job of keeping the tone of the forum civil without censoring too much. Most people who have spent a lot of time on internet forums learn that it is often difficult to ascertain exactly what tone was intended to be conveyed since we don’t have the normal visual and auditory clues present in face to face communication. I always try to give the benefit of the doubt when trying to decide if someone is being rude or sarcastic, but there are some posters here who sometimes seem to cross the line. I generally stay away from participation in controversial threads, yet I often enjoy reading them. But to get back to one of the original points of this thread, yes, we seem to have more instant experts in every field now than we used to. While I think there is about the same amount of information on certain subjects, with the internet, it is vastly easier to find it. Perhaps this simply doesn’t give people enough time to assimilate it. But given my druthers, I would druther not go back to the way it was!


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20droger
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Aug 19, 2011 09:27 |  #17

yogestee wrote in post #12962507 (external link)
Neil,, I'm not a grumpy old git, but bugger me, I don't suffer fools gladly.

The other day some fool posted I should "re-train" (yep, that's the word he used) because I don't use a technique that's popular with many members here on POTN. The technique I use, I've found successful for me for over six years.

With 28 years of pro photography under my belt, four years of formal training in commercial photography at college level, plus countless workshops, he wants me to re-train?

Don't you love being told to re-train by someone who has yet to train?

The older I get, and I've been getting older for a Hell of a long time now, the more I realize just how little I know.

And I too do not suffer fools gladly, or at all. That means, of course, that I'm isolating myself from the vast majority of those on the web, but I can live with that.

And, unlike neil_r, I am not at all afraid to admit that I am a grumpy old git. In fact, I'm proud of it. I had to work hard and long to get this way.




  
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TheReal7
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Aug 19, 2011 09:32 |  #18

20droger wrote in post #12962571 (external link)
The older I get, and I've been getting older for a Hell of a long time now, the more I realize just how little I know.

A wise man once said.....:)


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bfleck51
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Aug 19, 2011 09:36 |  #19

Neil...your right on..Iam from the old school too...back in the days when we shot everything from basketball to gavel passing with a 500cm...when I started out in the 70's we didnt have all this new stuff...we just knew what we where doing and didnt give it a second thought. Now adays you give a guy a didital camera and their self proclaimed experts...the school of hard knocks is the best teacher!


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bfleck51
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Aug 19, 2011 09:39 |  #20

Yno wrote in post #12962563 (external link)
I am not a real heavy poster, and I try to make absolutely sure of my answers before posting them. Possibly why I don't post that many! I have been using cameras somewhat seriously for more years than probably half the members here have been alive, and I consider myself an 'advanced enthusiast' with no desire to be a professional. That being said, I have to agree with the OP. Some of the information here is truly wrong, but defended to the death. I feel that the moderators do a really good job of keeping the tone of the forum civil without censoring too much. Most people who have spent a lot of time on internet forums learn that it is often difficult to ascertain exactly what tone was intended to be conveyed since we don’t have the normal visual and auditory clues present in face to face communication. I always try to give the benefit of the doubt when trying to decide if someone is being rude or sarcastic, but there are some posters here who sometimes seem to cross the line. I generally stay away from participation in controversial threads, yet I often enjoy reading them. But to get back to one of the original points of this thread, yes, we seem to have more instant experts in every field now than we used to. While I think there is about the same amount of information on certain subjects, with the internet, it is vastly easier to find it. Perhaps this simply doesn’t give people enough time to assimilate it. But given my druthers, I would druther not go back to the way it was!

AMEN!!!!


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FlyingPhotog
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Aug 19, 2011 09:42 |  #21

yogestee wrote in post #12962507 (external link)
Neil,, I'm not a grumpy old git, but bugger me, I don't suffer fools gladly.

The other day some fool posted I should "re-train" (yep, that's the word he used) because I don't use a technique that's popular with many members here on POTN. The technique I use, I've found successful for me for over six years.

With 28 years of pro photography under my belt, four years of formal training in commercial photography at college level, plus countless workshops, he wants me to re-train?

Not unlike the person who told me I should learn new techniques because I don't use a tripod or monopod when shooting aviation subjects.

Call me crazy, but I think I'm doing ok as is thanks...


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spkerer
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Aug 19, 2011 09:44 |  #22

Curtis N wrote in post #12962499 (external link)
... I bought my first real camera in 2005, learned almost everything I know about photography in this forum, and in 2008 was dubbed "Master Flasher." All of a sudden I'm seen as some sort of expert and people are sending me PMs asking for advice....

Woah. Now that's not why I thought you were dubbed "Master Flasher." I see now... it has to do with cameras and lighting.

Whew... I thought I was on the wrong board for a minute.


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neil_r
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Aug 19, 2011 09:48 |  #23

Yno wrote in post #12962563 (external link)
I am not a real heavy poster, and I try to make absolutely sure of my answers before posting them. ......... But given my druthers, I would druther not go back to the way it was!

Trust me neither would I, I actually embrace the great advances we have, Having spent way to many hours in the darkroom with wet feet and suffered the disappointment of opening the drum to see some really bad prints I love the idea of doing it at my desk with a cup of tea and the lights on :-)

And has already been pointed out it is not just at the point of taking the picture Post Processing Plugins can do amazing things and people can get some really interesting results, but they do not know how or why they just bought the plug-in and clicked on go.

I do not have a real problem, but I do think it devalues the work of people who really do know what they are doing, in a similar way that an athlete using performance enhancing drugs should not really be judged against those athletes that do not.


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neil_r
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Aug 19, 2011 09:50 |  #24

FlyingPhotog wrote in post #12962641 (external link)
Not unlike the person who told me I should learn new techniques because I don't use a tripod or monopod when shooting aviation subjects.

Call me crazy, but I think I'm doing ok as is thanks...

You could have used the tripod to hit him with


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yogestee
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Aug 19, 2011 09:50 |  #25

20droger wrote in post #12962571 (external link)
Don't you love being told to re-train by someone who has yet to train?

Roger,, I'm all for learning. My father, a very wise man, once told me we should never stop learning.

Anyway,, I want to go back in time, and re-explore things I picked up years ago. I'm seriously toying with the idea of going back to 4x5 B/W, just for the heck of it.

When finances allow, I'd like to get another Linhof or Sinar P2, a supply of Tri-X sheet film and chemicals.

Now,,that would be re-training.


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gonzogolf
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Aug 19, 2011 09:58 |  #26

Its definitely a different world. Part of me secretly hates digital because in the film days the ability to craft an image made you stand out a bit. Now the improvement in camera technology and the ability to adjust on the fly means anyone with a basic understanding of exposure comp, can nail a shot, even if it takes them 20 frames to dial it in. But I try to avoid, the "back in my day" or "in my 30 years of experience" when I try to help someone because it can result in us geezers sounding out of touch, or even jealous. There is one long time pro who posts in here who simply can't contain his anger about these upstarts and rails how nobody listens to the guy with 30 years experience. The truth is despite his experience, his stuff is also awfully dated and rooted in the 70's. Its up to us, to keep up when we are falling behind, and to lead when we are ahead.




  
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Canonero
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Aug 19, 2011 10:00 |  #27

Subbed.

I love old gits having intellectual conversation :)




  
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20droger
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Aug 19, 2011 10:09 |  #28

Canonero wrote in post #12962749 (external link)
Subbed.

I love old gits having intellectual conversation :)

Well, then, what the Hell are you doing here?




  
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Canonero
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Aug 19, 2011 10:22 |  #29

20droger wrote in post #12962803 (external link)
Well, then, what the Hell are you doing here?

Ah, observing how things have change overtime and how older people perceive younger people?




  
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pixiepearls
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Aug 19, 2011 10:30 |  #30

I have one truth for you, as the internet gets bigger (meaning more and more people have access to it) you have a more diluted audience. In my humble experience that is always a bit problematic. Your dealing with more drive by posters, and people with less invested in that space. When people reply to me and I don't know how they are I don't trust their response or opinion until I learn to trust THEM. I may take the reply, try the solution or tuck it away in my brain or think on it for a while. I am always struggling with finding people whom I respect and trust, to give me photography advice. I have a hard time learning things without a real person, in person, teaching me. I've been known to ask the same question on 10 forums, or even asked in more then one place on the same forum, in order to try and find the solution to my problem.

If I post a picture for some feedback, if I have no idea who is replying why would I value their opinion? (Remember I said I DO listen to that feedback but I don't always trust it). Sometimes I get really lucky and get some really useful replies from complete strangers, but I find I get better advice and I TRUST that advice more when I know the source better.


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