Green Box Mode.

mike_d wrote in post #12993095
http://www.newegg.com …aspx?Item=N82E1​6815153009

I've already used it to capture some old analog 8mm tapes (good thing the camcorder still worked). Now I need to find a working VCR to digitize some old VHS.

I converted all my old home Beta tapes using a service Costco uses. Last year they use to include coupons to convert 2 tapes (4 hours) onto 2 archival DVDs and a second backup set of archival DVDs for $20. We had maybe 40 old tapes and had the whole library converted. I was really surprised at how badly some of the older ones degraded. The oldest was 30 years old. They conversion looks better than the original when I digitized it so I believe they use time base correction and maybe some other equipment to clean up the signal.

I fail to see why anyone, even the beginner, will want to use Green Box at all. With P mode, you're getting all that the Green Box has to offer + added control when you need it. I primarily shoot in Av, but if I need to let the camera decide I switch to P. The biggest disadvantage of GB vs P is that in GB, you're forced to use multiple focus points, so getting the focus on the right area is pure lottery. Even if you only got the camera yesterday, and never used a SLR before, I'd advise to put it in P mode and centerpoint AF until you know what you're doing.

Amamba wrote in post #12997554
I fail to see why anyone, even the beginner, will want to use Green Box at all. With P mode, you're getting all that the Green Box has to offer + added control when you need it.

I despise 'P' and never use it, preferring green box to P when I want auto (which is almost never).

For me, I only use full auto when: I don't have time to set my settings and possibly don't remember some of the settings that I have left the on the camera (most notably EV, for example EV+3, but also others like ISO:6400).

So, in that case, when I see my kid doing something that I need to capture right this second or miss it; I go to green box and shoot. If I had gone to P, the shot would likely be grossly over exposed.

The only thing I would use P for is handing the camera to my wife, for example, where I might want to first set the ISO and/or EV, but otherwise have it fully automatic while she shoots.

edit: Did you ever notice that the P is shaped a little like a noose if you were putting it over your head. That's because it gives you enough rope to hang yourself.

Amamba wrote in post #12997554
I fail to see why anyone, even the beginner, will want to use Green Box at all. ...

I don't have a problem with any of the modes even though I shoot mostly Av/Tv/M but i see a lot of uses for the green box. As mentioned, when something presents itself and you don't have the time to make sure everything is just right, it's nice to know that a quick click into the green box will get you a very serviceable shot.

I have also taught my wife and kids (when they were home) That when in doubt, click it to the green box and shoot away. At times it's very convenient.

mtimber wrote in post #12977024
After reading a recent thread, I thought it would be useful for people new to photography to see the differences between Green Box mode and using more controlled camera settings.

So please post images that have a "green box" mode and a "selected" Camera mode, preferably Manual mode.

I personally am interested to see the differences in results.

Mark

I can't. I tried green box mode for day or two and switched to M and AV.
Auto does not supports single AF point selection, it makes it useless for predictable results.
For example, If child is looking at camera from behind of Christmas tree, in auto it will focus on the tree, which is very annoying.
My old FujiFilm P&S has much better auto mode compare to modern Rebel. It allows you select different AF areas in GB mode.
I'm very disappointed with Canon for this, my wife refusing to use Canon cameras we have at home, because she is able to get amazing pictures in auto mode with FujiFilm which is something like 30$ on second hand market.
Canon GB sucks!!!

kf095 wrote in post #12998615
I can't....

What was being asked for was some comparison shots to see if/when all of the disadvantages you just listed come into play. (There is a difference between "can't" and "don't want to" )

Lets see some examples folks...

hairy_moth wrote in post #12997628
I despise 'P' and never use it, preferring green box to P when I want auto (which is almost never).

For me, I only use full auto when: I don't have time to set my settings and possibly don't remember some of the settings that I have left the on the camera (most notably EV, for example EV+3, but also others like ISO:6400).

So, in that case, when I see my kid doing something that I need to capture right this second or miss it; I go to green box and shoot. If I had gone to P, the shot would likely be grossly over exposed.

The only thing I would use P for is handing the camera to my wife, for example, where I might want to first set the ISO and/or EV, but otherwise have it fully automatic while she shoots.

edit: Did you ever notice that the P is shaped a little like a noose if you were putting it over your head. That's because it gives you enough rope to hang yourself.

Very funny and true... but I was referring to people who don't use creative modes and don't set EV compensation, using P with no other tweaks than centerpoint AF. There is no EV or ISO to worry about then, all you get is Green mode with AF that is at least somewhat predictable.

Wilt wrote in post #12990432
I think you missed the point in Post 20, "So any 'difference' is via the use of OTHER SETTINGS...If the aperture and shutter speed and ISO selected were the same in Green Box and P and Av and Tv and M, you would likely see no visible difference!"

I actually think that _you_ missed the point.

The point - as I see it - would be: What creative mistakes does the camera make, because it doesn't understand that it should have prioritized a faster/slower shutterspeed or a higher/lower aperture, ...

The intention was to show the photo as originally intended by the photographer, and what the camera would end up with when it makes the choices itself.

And as already noted by some people: Canon's green box isn't the same for all bodies. Another thing is that there can be a variant of the green box where the flash is forbidden.

pwm2 wrote in post #12999422
I actually think that _you_ missed the point.

The point - as I see it - would be: What creative mistakes does the camera make, because it doesn't understand that it should have prioritized a faster/slower shutterspeed or a higher/lower aperture, ...

The intention was to show the photo as originally intended by the photographer, and what the camera would end up with when it makes the choices itself.

And as already noted by some people: Canon's green box isn't the same for all bodies. Another thing is that there can be a variant of the green box where the flash is forbidden.

Could you really SEE the creative mistakes it made in my later post 40, where it could have failed to account for sufficient DOF or where it missed focus off the primary subject? Certainly it was visible when my 'available light' need was defeated by the flash.

Wilt wrote in post #13003264
Could you really SEE the creative mistakes it made in my later post 40, where it could have failed to account for sufficient DOF or where it missed focus off the primary subject? Certainly it was visible when my 'available light' need was defeated by the flash.

That's just it.

Your textual post claimed you saw now reason to post photos to compare creative decisions with camera logic.

But your later image post did show what the OP originally was interested in - the difference between photos when the photographer selects a specific setting for a specific reason, and what the camera ends up it, just using mathematical models for prioritizing depth-of-field, noise, exposure.

pwm2 wrote in post #13003418
But your later image post did show what the OP originally was interested in - the difference between photos when the photographer selects a specific setting for a specific reason, and what the camera ends up it, just using mathematical models for prioritizing depth-of-field, noise, exposure.

I don't know about others, but apart from flash being used, I see no perceivalble difference between the green box shot and the other three in what I posted, even though I know there is a difference because I watched the focus shift for the last shot (green box), and because I could read the settings during post processing. DOF masks the focus shift which occurred in green box mode, the green box choice of shutter speed was NOT that much different from P or Tv mode, and the slow shutter speed I permitted when I chose f/8 for DOF in Av mode could have been masked (in my Av shot) by a person in the shot NOT moving much at the time of the shot! How perceivable are the differences I listed? Not very.

I need to try very hard to shoot a series to deliberately accentuate the differences. That was my point...that merely shooting in one mode vs. Green Box mode is likely to NOT demonstrate a difference sufficient for someone to say, "Wow, a big difference!"

Wilt wrote in post #13003446
That was my point...that merely shooting in one mode vs. Green Box mode is likely to NOT demonstrate a difference sufficient for someone to say, "Wow, a big difference!"

But that would be a conclusion too. In traditional greenbox threads, one half of the visitors describes the greenbox mode as evil incarnate, and the camera totally incapable of taking decent photos.

I don't think you should go out and try to figure out how to create differences. The important thing with the thread is that it can show that there are situations where the camera will be lost on its own. And situations where GB will give very similar results.

So - payed money shots are important enough to motivate great care. But in many situations, GB will do quite well. In some situations it will do much better just because it throws in the automatic rules instantly while someone like me will miss a number of instant-happening photos because I'm not fast enough to realize what settings I did leave the camera with since the day before.

Any debate of GB good or bad works way better with real photos to compare. And the photos should be unbiased, i.e. the manual foto should be taked without consideration for what GB might do.

The end results might be:
- some people notices that it is quite meaningful to learn to use the camera manually, since that adds new options to try to get a specific end results.

- some people may notice that it is silly to ridicule people they have happened to see with camera in GB mode, or who have had the indecency to post an photo with the GB stamp of hell in the meta-data.

So yes, I do see a meaning with this thread even if some attempts will end up with a hardly visible difference and some with a big difference between the two shots.

^^Agreed...

pwm2 wrote in post #13004359
I don't think you should go out and try to figure out how to create differences. The important thing with the thread is that it can show that there are situations where the camera will be lost on its own. And situations where GB will give very similar results.

I think this statement nails it. Unfortunately I haven't even turned my camera on this week...