Sony a77 and 16-50 f/2.8 SSM Announced

HappySnapper90 wrote in post #12991016
All of Canon's vertical grips suck, even the built-in ones to the 1-series. Look at what Sony offers on their vertical grips: all the same controls you have on the camera in horizontal mode. There's no way to change ISO using a Canon vertical grip - you have to move your hand to the ISO button. lame.

Agreed, I want better Vertical Grips, Sony has some of the best Ergonomics...Heck I was going to dump to Sony for the A700 and Carl Zeiss 16-80 years back before Canon finally launched the 7D....

I wouldn't call some of the features "impractical" Sweep panorama is actually quite cool sometimes, and the EVF is far from a Gimmick, imagine having a live histogram in your viewfinder or the VERY cool white balance adjustment they showed off in the video (I dunno if the a77 has a live histogram, but its something that EVF can have that optical cannot)

Theres more than the ONE high ISO image as well, there IS an ISO6400 image in there and it doesnt look too bad, Yes, Theres a ton of shmearing from noise reduction, but I can see the -potential- detail in the image, They remind me VERY much of the 7D when it first came out and everyone was judging it off JPEG quality....

tkbslc wrote in post #12991429
I am sure you can tweak it to your liking. Canons produce very soft JPEGs by default and I always have to bump up sharpness in my picture styles. It's just matter of preference. Obviously Sony doesn't have a pixel peeper friendly default JPEG engine.

Do keep in mind we are looking at the first 100% crops of a TWENTY-FOUR megapixel APS-C shot. Are those supposed to look good at 100%? The 7D has a lot of complaints at 18MP because you are just so far zoomed in. It's like a wall sized print from 1 foot away.

As said above, The images remind me of the early 7D Jpegs that had everyone complaining...

sye46 wrote in post #12991519
First off. I'm happy to announce that I'm going to sell my 7D next month for the A77. I feel that Canon and Nikon has reached the limits in technology with an OVF. EVF is the future and the possibilities are endless. You can only increment the changes in OVF DSLR cameras so much more. I challenge, or dare Canon and Nikon to produce a OVF DSLR at the price of $1400 that has the same specs of the A77. It cannot be done. It's impossible. I've long been a fan of OVF, but it's time for a change. Imagine looking through the OLED view finder, you can see your live histogram, change the WB on the spot and SEE the changes live. Make sure the image is level in the view finder with the spirit level. With every single button customizable and within reach, you won't even have to remove your eye from the view finder to take a shot again.

Yeah i do gotta admit i like the EVF possibilities, but i would not buy one unless i got to play with one first, I quite like the a55, but the viewfinder still wasnt there to me ..

Am I considering dumping my 7D for the a77? Not yet, Lots of reasons why I would enjoy a lot of the features (The tilty screen with phase detect AF for instance...) and theres more than one Sony lens id like..... But I'm waiting for Canon's response

Yeah I want to know why the hell IR did that, Why are they comparing this thing to FF cameras instead of its actual competition? Throwing ONE FF DSLR in there to basically show "Yeah and see? FF wins in image quality still, so dont go into this thinking you're getting FF quality" but to compare it against nothing but?

jwcdds wrote in post #12992017
But I like a lot of the features. Competition is good. I hope Canon and Nikon can come up with something equally impressive. No way I'd ever jump ship since I'm lens-invested, so I hope Canon doesn't disappoint too much.

Same here man I really have to admit I'm losing faith in Canon, it feels like forever since they announced something i was excited by, While im watching everyone else come out with at least something i can get excited about and actually want to buy Canon just keeps giving really expensive or overpriced products, Canon's prices also seem to be going up while everyone elses are going down....

KenjiS wrote in post #12992460
Yeah I want to know why the hell IR did that, Why are they comparing this thing to FF cameras instead of its actual competition? Throwing ONE FF DSLR in there to basically show "Yeah and see? FF wins in image quality still, so dont go into this thinking you're getting FF quality" but to compare it against nothing but?


Same here man I really have to admit I'm losing faith in Canon, it feels like forever since they announced something i was excited by, While im watching everyone else come out with at least something i can get excited about and actually want to buy Canon just keeps giving really expensive or overpriced products, Canon's prices also seem to be going up while everyone elses are going down....

They are making the comparison because it's what it competes with, megapixels wise.....I'm not losing any "faith" in canon or nikon, either, though. Shrug. You always read nikon people losing faith in nikon because there's no 5dmk2 competitor yet, canon people losing faith in canon because there's no d700 competitor yet, sony people losing faith because there's no a700 replacement (until just now), etc, etc....meh, shrug.


Stick with whatever system you prefer the ergonomics and lenses of, the bodies don't suddenly stop taking good pics and need upgraded every year. Canon and nikon will have new cams in the next 6 months or so. Shrug.


That said: The A77 looks great. Ergonomics look good. EVF sounds nice (haven't seen in person obviously, but the A55's one was decent). Specs are great. The 24mp samples look pretty good, obviously crappy sony jpegs, but meh. They are good enough that i'm sure RAW files will be fantastic! Best APS-C yet i'm sure, probably close to a900 ones! Probably better or as good as 5dmk2 ones, too. We'll see. 16-50mm lens looks great and price is sure right. Overall a great day for Sony users, and good for us because the 16-50 is priced so low that Canon and Nikon won't be able to rip us off so badly in future I hope! I'm not concerned, high ISO looks fine to me, and I don't care about iso 52k or w/e, 16,000 is high enough more than I'd ever need, I care more about base ISO quality at this point.

bjyoder wrote in post #12991982
It's only photo enthusiasts who wouldn't produce .jpeg images from a $1300 camera; there are many people in the "Mr. and Mrs. America" audience who will throw $1,300 at a camera because they can, and not because they know that a RAW file can get a better image.

people with way too much time on their hands shoot and then process raw. properly done jpeg straight out of the camera is much faster.

elfenix wrote in post #12992878
people with way too much time on their hands shoot and then process raw. properly done jpeg straight out of the camera is much faster.

I thought it was people that wanted the best looking images, but I could be wrong. If it is only about fastest output, then I say just use an iphone and have it auto upload to flickr.

It looks like an exciting camera for a APS-C camera by a company trying to muscle some market share announced mid 2011, and will probably sell very well, and have many happy owners.

But the eternal thing about Sony as a system is they seem to lack long term ambition. Where are their range of Super Telephoto's to match Canon's or Nikon's? And where are their 1D/D3 equivalent pro-built bodies? A 9-point AF system in their full frame A900 hardly compares to what Nikon or Canon deliver, and this and the lenses count if you shoot wildlife and need stuff like reach and durability in harsh climates, or being seriously bashed about in photojournalism.

The A77 will undoubtably completely kill the ludicrous Sigma SD1 dead (which I completely take my hat off to Sony for doing without any effort) Sony have after all got some formidable Carl Zeiss glass behind them, and Sigma have well, have their own Sigma lenses for their own mount

What Nikon and Canon should announce shortly, with their vastly superior range of lenses, should be very interesting.

Ultimately, cool camera Sony; food for thought etc, but i'm not tempted to move anywhere

woos wrote in post #12992796
They are making the comparison because it's what it competes with, megapixels wise.....I'm not losing any "faith" in canon or nikon, either, though. Shrug. You always read nikon people losing faith in nikon because there's no 5dmk2 competitor yet, canon people losing faith in canon because there's no d700 competitor yet, sony people losing faith because there's no a700 replacement (until just now), etc, etc....meh, shrug.

Its more lenses than bodies for me, What I want from Canon is an updated 50mm f/1.4, A EF-S 30mm prime, a long macro with IS, and a 100-400 Mk2 with vastly superior optics to the current one and the 70-300L

I only lost faith with Canon body wise when I wanted a better AF system than my 30D had and there was absolutely nothing except going to a 1-series (which i didnt want because they're too darn big to take everywhere) Thats when i was looking at the a700 and D300 and seriously was going to switch systems (I also wanted an APS-C 24-1xx type of lens, Canon did not have one of those...) The 7D wasnt out at this time, When 7D launch day happened i think i actually CRIED because they not only gave me the 7D but also the 15-85 and the 100L...

Canon and Nikon each have at least one more announcement before the end of the year, and I'm expecting Canon is going to give us at least one new lens and that...

Kenji, you really think if Canon updated all those lenses and you actually bought them all that it would make a marked difference in your photography?

tkbslc wrote in post #12993990
Kenji, you really think if Canon updated all those lenses and you actually bought them all that it would make a marked difference in your photography?

Nothing to do with making a difference in my photography, I'd just enjoy it if a couple of those got updated, Though I'm not sure I'd buy the 50 out of the set now, as I am quite content with my Sigmalux... The 30 I would if it was like the Nikon 35mm f/1.8

I do wish the 100-400 had a better IS system, When I owned the Sigma 50-500 OS the one thing I really loved on it more than anything else was the 4-stop OS which I found VERY helpful and useful on such a lens, I could hold it at 500mm at much slower speeds than the 100-400 and that is a very nice thing to have

So on THAT lens, it will not make me any "better" or "worse" but it would likely get me a lot more keepers or give me the option to use a lower ISO...

-edit- Its more about Options, Really...

Right now however, what I really want is a 70-200 f/2.8 of some kind...

tkbslc wrote in post #12993990
Kenji, you really think if Canon updated all those lenses and you actually bought them all that it would make a marked difference in your photography?

I'd like to add my own thought...yes, a f/1.4 sharper at the wide aperture would encourage me to shoot more at that aperture - I still do quite a bit though. They want me to buy a f/1.2L obviously. The reluctance to update the 100-400mm and the 180 macro, though...the 100-400mm sells well so maybe that's the end of the story. Still, I never got one from them (and it turned out to be a good choice for me because it set me on a winding path towards a f/2.8 zoom).

Heck, I'd even like slightly more resolution from the TS-E 90mm. Sharper lenses make one a bit less apprehensive about trying out aggressive shots.

As it stands though - you work with what you got, and few enough complaints there. No cola bottle bottoms. in that lineup.

Edit: Duh - forgot to comment on the A77 which I meant to do.

12 fps confirmed, hooray...booster pack looks decent enough with the added second shutter release. Starting to look like a pro camera now.

Sony likes tilting things on their cameras (the whole back of the F707 and F717 tilts back and forth - note this is just the part that does the processing, holds the battery and memory card, the EVF and live view screen - the actual sensor is obviously in the lens barrel itself along with the other optics)...a roundabout way of saying the tilting flash head looks useful for the portrait grip.

Potential downsides for me include the JPEG engine (but wait there's RAW) and the "translucent" (semi-transparent pellicle) mirror nonsense. Are Sony going to shoot Canon and Nikon down with highlight ghosts? Overall, the camera really does look impressively specified and the 2.4M OLED is a headline-seeming feature (though never to forget it's no pentaprism - for my uses not a pentamirror equal either - can't we please take the picture before we start muddling up the image? This is going to confuse some new photographers who want neutral colors and exact exposure, but then again I suppose this happens with compacts all the time too). And nothing about the more expensive back screen - Sony may be perfectly situated in the market to push out high-resolution EVFs, but I wouldn't be surprised if the live view / review screen is a similar resolution and even technology (i.e. regular old LCD) to that of other cameras. I'm wondering if this is going to lead to an era of people complaining about dead pixels...in their viewfinder! Dang high resolution though so I hope it wouldn't be noticeable even when there are.

Jahled wrote in post #12993003
But the eternal thing about Sony as a system is they seem to lack long term ambition. Where are their range of Super Telephoto's to match Canon's or Nikon's? And where are their 1D/D3 equivalent pro-built bodies? A 9-point AF system in their full frame A900 hardly compares to what Nikon or Canon deliver, and this and the lenses count if you shoot wildlife and need stuff like reach and durability in harsh climates, or being seriously bashed about in photojournalism.

I wouldn't say that at all. In recent years they've released some very high quality optics, like their Carl Zeiss zooms and their portrait primes, which were also jointly designed with Carl Zeiss. You may also have overlooked the fact they have a superb 70-300G, oh, hang on, did I mention the 70-400 ? Regarding the flagship models...Well, next year there'll be several new full-frames, which might incorporate the translucent mirror as well. Imagine shooting at 48 MP, at 12 fps, for three seconds! The A900 was their first attempt at a full-frame camera, remember ?

They do have a pretty good 300/2.8 G SSM, and next year the 500/4 G SSM should be here. The latter has been delayed because of the current situation in Japan. Mainstream products simply get priority over niche products like the "Super Telephotos" you mentioned . It's as simple as that.

KenjiS wrote in post #12994025
Right now however, what I really want is a 70-200 f/2.8 of some kind...

Have a look at the Sigma 70-200 2.8 OS.

Superb lens and much overlooked because of the shadow cast by the Canon 70-200 2.8 IS II.

mtimber wrote in post #12996124
Have a look at the Sigma 70-200 2.8 OS.

Superb lens and much overlooked because of the shadow cast by the Canon 70-200 2.8 IS II.

Thats the one im considering actually, The Canon is a tidge pricey for my budget at the moment

As of right now because I hardly get to shoot birds i've considered swapping my 100-400 out and getting a 70-200 f/2.8 OS with a 1.4x teleconverter because for my needs it would get more use, The 100-400 as of right now sits in a cabinet because for anything less than 400 i want a faster aperture...

KenjiS wrote in post #12997431
Thats the one im considering actually, The Canon is a tidge pricey for my budget at the moment

As of right now because I hardly get to shoot birds i've considered swapping my 100-400 out and getting a 70-200 f/2.8 OS with a 1.4x teleconverter because for my needs it would get more use, The 100-400 as of right now sits in a cabinet because for anything less than 400 i want a faster aperture...

I have had both lenses and would not hesitate to recommend you do a swap here.

The sigma 70-200 really is that good.

Although I never used the Canon 70-200 2.8 MK I IS, many people have made the claim that the sigma 70-200 is better than that.

So this is "apparently" the second best 70-200 available for the Canon at nearly half the price of the number 1 lens.

Honestly this lens gives you a big silly grin when you get it and use it...

Joris wrote in post #12995946
I wouldn't say that at all. In recent years they've released some very high quality optics, like their Carl Zeiss zooms and their portrait primes, which were also jointly designed with Carl Zeiss. You may also have overlooked the fact they have a superb 70-300G, oh, hang on, did I mention the 70-400 ? Regarding the flagship models...Well, next year there'll be several new full-frames, which might incorporate the translucent mirror as well. Imagine shooting at 48 MP, at 12 fps, for three seconds! The A900 was their first attempt at a full-frame camera, remember ?

They do have a pretty good 300/2.8 G SSM, and next year the 500/4 G SSM should be here. The latter has been delayed because of the current situation in Japan. Mainstream products simply get priority over niche products like the "Super Telephotos" you mentioned . It's as simple as that.

You forgot the 135mm f/1.8, That thing is rediculously Bokehliciously Awesome...

And in Minolta glass, Minolta had an amazing 200mm f/2.8 prime, it was rated as the BEST 200mm prime of ANY system back in a review done in the 90s against the Nikon 180mm f/2.8 ED and the Canon 200mm f/2.8L....Photozone tested it recently and at f/2.8 it actually matches the a900's sensor! Spectacular lens..And pretty fast focusing

Theres also the STF lenses which are..complicated to explain but they offer really good Bokeh

And you forgot the only AF Mirror lens in production, the 500mm f/8 which is actually pretty decent, its also nice and compact and rather inexpensive..Although it appears sadly discontinued now

I mentioned the portrait primes, I meant the 85/1.4 Carl Zeiss and 135/1.8 Carl Zeiss .

Yeah, didn't mention the 500/8. That lens just doesn't make sense in today's cameras in my opinion, as you are limited to the center AF point, it appears. Although that could be different on the translucent cameras announced the other day.