Sony a77 and 16-50 f/2.8 SSM Announced

Joris wrote in post #12997532
I mentioned the portrait primes, I meant the 85/1.4 Carl Zeiss and 135/1.8 Carl Zeiss .

Yeah, didn't mention the 500/8. That lens just doesn't make sense in today's cameras in my opinion, as you are limited to the center AF point, it appears. Although that could be different on the translucent cameras announced the other day.

No its still center point limited, and i think it does make SOME sense because of the improved high ISO capabilities making f/8 a practical aperture... Doing a quick look around i've seen some pretty good shots with that lens (Especially of birds and stuff) and i think it could probubly hold up decently to the 150-500 Sigma at least...Its also quite small and portable and handy to have...its still a shame to see it go

mtimber wrote in post #12997465
I have had both lenses and would not hesitate to recommend you do a swap here.

The sigma 70-200 really is that good.

Although I never used the Canon 70-200 2.8 MK I IS, many people have made the claim that the sigma 70-200 is better than that.

So this is "apparently" the second best 70-200 available for the Canon at nearly half the price of the number 1 lens.

Honestly this lens gives you a big silly grin when you get it and use it...

I got to toy with one in a store before, Very good lens, the store just sucks for getting a good impression of its capabilities (Except i remember color and contrast were great and the AF was VERY nippy)

KenjiS wrote in post #12997569
No its still center point limited, and i think it does make SOME sense because of the improved high ISO capabilities making f/8 a practical aperture... Doing a quick look around i've seen some pretty good shots with that lens (Especially of birds and stuff) and i think it could probubly hold up decently to the 150-500 Sigma at least...Its also quite small and portable and handy to have...its still a shame to see it go

You have to admit It would be pretty cool to have an AF 500mm lens that fits in a small shoulder bag with ease:

Just a shame it's limited to the center point though. Did you know that it really has a fixed aperture ? I.e. you have to get the exposure right with the ISO and the shutter speed, because you can't change the aperture at all .

Joris wrote in post #12995946
I wouldn't say that at all. In recent years they've released some very high quality optics, like their Carl Zeiss zooms and their portrait primes, which were also jointly designed with Carl Zeiss. You may also have overlooked the fact they have a superb 70-300G, oh, hang on, did I mention the 70-400 ? Regarding the flagship models...Well, next year there'll be several new full-frames, which might incorporate the translucent mirror as well. Imagine shooting at 48 MP, at 12 fps, for three seconds! The A900 was their first attempt at a full-frame camera, remember ?

They do have a pretty good 300/2.8 G SSM, and next year the 500/4 G SSM should be here. The latter has been delayed because of the current situation in Japan. Mainstream products simply get priority over niche products like the "Super Telephotos" you mentioned . It's as simple as that.

Cool, and i'm not denying Sony have some pretty neat lenses for their system, especially with Carl Zeiss lenses functioning with AF on their bodies (my mate is a A900 owner and one of their 'advocates' here in the UK), but to be blunt, I want everything I could possibly need like now. I'm forty, and don't have ten years for Sony to develop their lens range to match what Canon or Nikon can provide me in fast primes with reach, or camera bodies that can survive a tussle with an animal in an enclosure, or in the wild (such as an angry anarchist :lol

I love snow leopards, if I go to Pakistan to try and capture some shots of these seriously elusive animals, even with the best planing in the world, which system would I rely on at the moment? Currently Sony don't make a camera built like a tank such as a 1D or D3, nor primes 200 f/2, 300 f/2.8, 400 f/2.8, 500 f/4, 600 f/4, 800 f/5.6 like Canon do, which to be honest I would prefer to one or two of for such trip. Presently, I have this option with Canon and having an account with Calumet can hire what I don't actually own; they don't even hire out Sony gear so figure.

I think if you shoot really high end sports and wildlife, you'd be nuts to go anywhere but Canon and NIkon for the forseeable future. However, I'd bet that's only 10% of photographers out there. The rest of could easily shoot Sony (or Olympus or Pentax or even Sigma) and be just fine.

tkbslc wrote in post #12998734
I think if you shoot really high end sports and wildlife, you'd be nuts to go anywhere but Canon and NIkon for the forseeable future. However, I'd bet that's only 10% of photographers out there. The rest of could easily shoot Sony (or Olympus or Pentax or even Sigma) and be just fine.

Which is why i'm not going to knock them as a brand to much, don't get me wrong, my mate's A900 is a lovely camera, and as has been touched upon, it's grip does a lot more than a Canon's. But my 1Ds3 and 1D4 blow it to smithereens when it comes to tight focusing and build, both of which were factors for me upgrading from two 5D2s.

The point I was originally trying to make is your options are obviously much more limited than if you've invested in in the Canon or Nikon camp, which is what I was muttering about as 'ambition.'

With regards to the thread, whilst the A77's specs are impressive, it's an APS-C, which is completely useless to me these days

Err...They do have a 300/2.8 . If your mate is an Advocate Photographer (as I think they're called) he should have access to one, go ask him I'd say .

That 500/4 you'd need is coming early next year (see my other post above). With a 1.4 teleconverter you could get a 700mm f/5.6. 800mm isn't that much of a difference in my opinion...And seriously, how many people need a 800mm lens ?

Joris wrote in post #12998891
Err...They do have a 300/2.8 . If your mate is an Advocate Photographer (as I think they're called) he should have access to one, go ask him I'd say .

That 500/4 you'd need is coming early next year (see my other post above). With a 1.4 teleconverter you could get a 700mm f/5.6. 800mm isn't that much of a difference in my opinion...And seriously, how many people need a 800mm lens ?

Have you read anything i've just bothered to write mate! I don't want to be limited to two lenses, I want the option of the lot in my lifetime.

And yes seriously, Snow Leopards are so elusive and unpredictable the chances are I just might spot one with an 800 with a 2x teleconverter, with luck

Joris wrote in post #12991631
Please don't tell me you'd use a $ 1300 camera to create JPEGs ?

See below.

bjyoder wrote in post #12991982
It's only photo enthusiasts who wouldn't produce .jpeg images from a $1300 camera; there are many people in the "Mr. and Mrs. America" audience who will throw $1,300 at a camera because they can, and not because they know that a RAW file can get a better image.

Right. Do you think soccer mom's have hours to spend developing 100s of RAW files after one of her kids' soccer games? There are a lot of people shooting JPG with dSLRs. You are conversing with other photo enthusiasts and pros on here that are into advanced use of cameras.

sye46 wrote in post #12991519
I challenge, or dare Canon and Nikon to produce a OVF DSLR at the price of $1400 that has the same specs of the A77. It cannot be done.

I sure hope Canon doesn't try! 12 fps camera that will last only 1 second with a 13 shot raw buffer and about 1.5 seconds with an 18 shot JPG buffer. a77 also allows limited control of shot settings during those bursts as well as in video mode - more auto settings the camera chooses. Those are some pretty daunting limitations. Seems that sony is after flashy specifications that come with drawbacks that may not hit a user until they are holding their camera, scratching his/her head wondering why it is acting weird when it's trying to be used.

It sounds like you're a gadget junkie wanting the "latest and greatest" when I want a camera that performs like a camera has and should. I hope you enjoy your experience with Sony. I've heard their service/repair support is pretty poor for instance and like to leave customers hanging when cameras have issues like with bugs aka needing firmware updates/fixes.

Edit: ah, looks like I've been bitten by a Sony troll who just joined and that was his first post trying to make do advertising for Sony!

Jahled wrote in post #12998605
Cool, and i'm not denying Sony have some pretty neat lenses for their system, especially with Carl Zeiss lenses functioning with AF on their bodies (my mate is a A900 owner and one of their 'advocates' here in the UK), but to be blunt, I want everything I could possibly need like now. I'm forty, and don't have ten years for Sony to develop their lens range to match what Canon or Nikon can provide me in fast primes with reach, or camera bodies that can survive a tussle with an animal in an enclosure, or in the wild (such as an angry anarchist :lol

I love snow leopards, if I go to Pakistan to try and capture some shots of these seriously elusive animals, even with the best planing in the world, which system would I rely on at the moment? Currently Sony don't make a camera built like a tank such as a 1D or D3, nor primes 200 f/2, 300 f/2.8, 400 f/2.8, 500 f/4, 600 f/4, 800 f/5.6 like Canon do, which to be honest I would prefer to one or two of for such trip. Presently, I have this option with Canon and having an account with Calumet can hire what I don't actually own; they don't even hire out Sony gear so figure.

I just actually looked at your gallery, Awesome pics, I love Snow Leopards, Keep meaning to get myself some pictures of one (and i have a friend whining at me to do it)

Can tell you right now if i got the opportunity to go to Pakistan to get pictures of one I'd likely grab, because they're available right now, the D3S and 200-400 f/4G VR II OR a Canon 1D Mark IV and a Sigma 120-300 f/2.8 OS, Though those lenses ARE likely a bit on the short side....

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On the service/repair front, in LensRentals repair data 4.0 they finally had enough Sony glass to publish reliability on them... The 24-70 f/2.8 and 70-200 f/2.8 had something like a 33% failure rate on rentals, and Roger Cicala noted that the repair costs were substantially higher than Canon or Nikon, and basically the difference between a Sony lens hood and a Canon one (IE about 3 times as much)

Truthfully, if i had a second camera system, it would likely be a Sony one because i do like a few of their lenses, But the key word there is "second camera system", My primary would always be Canon or Nikon because they've been around longer and photography is their primary business, they're in the business now and will be here in 10 years, Sony may decide that dSLRs are no longer profitable and axe the entire Alpha dSLR division next year or sell it off to some other company...

I normally don't follow Sony equipment but I received the B&H email announcing this a little while ago. I'm going to want to see RAW images before passing judgment. 24MP in a APS-C sensor is a bit of a reach even now.

K6AZ wrote in post #13000550
24MP in a APS-C sensor is a bit of a reach even now.

THat's my gut reaction, too, but to be honest weren't people saying that about even 10MP?

They were but we're at the point of diminishing returns. I've seen some sample images from this sensor and the NR has been applied so heavily the images almost look like paintings. Either way I won't be going to Sony but I am really interested in how this sensor really performs, heavily PP'ed JPGs don't count.

sye46 wrote in post #12991519
First off. I'm happy to announce that I'm going to sell my 7D next month for the A77. I feel that Canon and Nikon has reached the limits in technology with an OVF. EVF is the future and the possibilities are endless. You can only increment the changes in OVF DSLR cameras so much more. I challenge, or dare Canon and Nikon to produce a OVF DSLR at the price of $1400 that has the same specs of the A77. It cannot be done. It's impossible. I've long been a fan of OVF, but it's time for a change. Imagine looking through the OLED view finder, you can see your live histogram, change the WB on the spot and SEE the changes live. Make sure the image is level in the view finder with the spirit level. With every single button customizable and within reach, you won't even have to remove your eye from the view finder to take a shot again.

The comparisons you see in Image Resource are comparing a BETA jpg engine which isn't final yet. AND it is comparing the images to a Canon 1DSM3, Nikon D3X, Pentax 645D, and Sony A850!!! Those are all FF and medium format cameras that costs thousands and thousands more! Let's see the 7D and A77 comparisons once it is released before we pass judgement on high ISO detail. Better yet, see some RAW comparisons.

I've used cameras with EVF and there is one big issue I have with them. Shooting low light never produces as much brightness as you can see with your bare eyes through the OVF. I also notice this with live view on my 60D in low light.

Have they eliminated the image delay that also plagued EVF?