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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 29 Aug 2011 (Monday) 02:41
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Pixel King ETTL Trigger Controller

 
rebop
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Mar 23, 2012 16:30 as a reply to  @ post 14138370 |  #286

Hi folks,


I just received a King TX and 2 RX for Canon. I have a 1D MKIII and 580EX II's. Two things are not working as expected, with either receiver:

1. I have the modeling light set for Depth of Field preview button. This only works one out of 10 tries.
2. I have zoom set for auto, but each time I power things on, the flash is reset for manual zoom.

What might I be doing wrong? Is there an order that things must be powered on? I am now doing camera, TX, RX, flash.

Thanks!

~Bob


I'm Bob and I'm an L-coholic
1DX - 6D - G5 X
16-35
L - 24-105 L - 24-70 II L
70-200 2.8 L - 70-300 L - 100 2.8 L Macro

  
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CliveyBoy
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Mar 23, 2012 17:49 |  #287

Bob - The modelling light does not work reliably.

Your power-up sequence is right. I would add a half-shutter press, which makes the King TX update itself.

I understand that the 1D mk III has Flash Control Menus. The setting in the FCM Zoom menu item will be applied to the 580EXIIs on startup. The Kings ignore on-flash settings.


Clive, and Great G/D Abbie
50D; 580EXII, 430EXII, 550EX, YN685EX; YN-622C II, YN622C-TX and YN560-TX controllers TOYUG II v5.10 YN622 System Guide (external link)
I tried retiring, but gave it up - it's a dead end

  
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rebop
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Mar 23, 2012 17:55 |  #288

CliveyBoy wrote in post #14141721 (external link)
Bob - The modelling light does not work reliably.

Your power-up sequence is right. I would add a half-shutter press, which makes the King TX update itself.

I understand that the 1D mk III has Flash Control Menus. The setting in the FCM Zoom menu item will be applied to the 580EXIIs on startup. The Kings ignore on-flash settings.

Thanks for the reply. Good to know it is not just me on the modeling light. Are they aware of this for a future fix?

The zoom is even more interesting. When I turn everything on, with proper settings on the camera, the first shot is fine and zooms as expected. But then it immediately switches the flash to manual zoom.

If I then set auto zoom on the camera again, even just by touching that setting, not changing and changing back, the auto zoom is set for the entire session after that until powered down again.

And, as to not recognizing flash settings, hmmm. Setting the camera to scale the flash as feet has no effect. It is always meters. But if I change the function setting on the flash, it stays as feet.

So, I'll hope for a modeling fix and hope someone can help figure why the auto zoom setting does not seem to stick.

~Bob


I'm Bob and I'm an L-coholic
1DX - 6D - G5 X
16-35
L - 24-105 L - 24-70 II L
70-200 2.8 L - 70-300 L - 100 2.8 L Macro

  
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CliveyBoy
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Mar 23, 2012 18:38 |  #289

I have just been testing the zoom. On startup, mine does not change from the flash's last-used setting. The change occurs on half-shutter, as the Auto setting requires a check on the lens setting a moment before shutter-open.

"proper" settings - Zoom: Auto or Zoom: M24 etc? After half-shutter as a setup action, do the flash displays conform to FCM setting? Does the EXIF data on the subsequent first shot reveal conformance with the FCM Zoom setting? Is it after the shot that the flash displays something different? If so, I would expect that there is a flakey connection on one of the pins.

The King enforces compliance with the FCM's zoom setting. And it seems to default to Auto at unexpected times. The only way to get varying zoom settings is by configuring to avoid the full Canon communications - pc-sync cord, or a non-ETTL device on the RX shoe. The 550EX had its compatibility removed (inexplicable), and will hold its on-flash settings even when mounted on the King RX. A third option is to use Opas as a non-ETTL receiver with an ETTL flash on-shoe.

The metres/feet setting is solely a display option on-flash, and affects nothing in a shot. The Kings are intended to give camera control - what is displayed on the flashes is irrelevant, and too distant to be of use. I would not expect Pixel to change this, or the modelling light either. They have been well aware of the latter failure since May 2011.

By the way, I take it that you are using a Canon lens wich transmits its stop setting. Could its internal contacts be faulty?


Clive, and Great G/D Abbie
50D; 580EXII, 430EXII, 550EX, YN685EX; YN-622C II, YN622C-TX and YN560-TX controllers TOYUG II v5.10 YN622 System Guide (external link)
I tried retiring, but gave it up - it's a dead end

  
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rebop
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Mar 23, 2012 19:09 |  #290

Let me see if I can explain a little better:

1D MKIII, 24-70 zoom, 580 EX II.

Set to auto zoom. All on, first shot works as expected and auto zoom functions as set in the 1D menus. BUT, immediately after that first shot, the flash switched to MANUAL Zoom. The only way back is to go to camera settings, touch the auto zoom function (which IS set to auto), and after that all shots are auto zoom until I shut down and power up again.

Odd, no?

~Bob


I'm Bob and I'm an L-coholic
1DX - 6D - G5 X
16-35
L - 24-105 L - 24-70 II L
70-200 2.8 L - 70-300 L - 100 2.8 L Macro

  
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rebop
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Mar 24, 2012 11:56 |  #291

Did some more research on this last night and found one reviewer on Amazon and one on Flickr with exactly the same problem to the "t". So it must be a bug. On power up of the system, you must "touch" Auto for zoom on the camera settings or it is not sent to the receivers.

I emailed them, but no reply. Is there a better way to report a bug to get into the queue for future firmware releases?

~Bob


I'm Bob and I'm an L-coholic
1DX - 6D - G5 X
16-35
L - 24-105 L - 24-70 II L
70-200 2.8 L - 70-300 L - 100 2.8 L Macro

  
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CliveyBoy
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Mar 24, 2012 17:11 |  #292

I have been able to confirm your finding, using 50D/Kings/580EXII.

The stand-alone flash was powered up and the head raised and lowered so that the flash was set to zoom 50mm. The camera and TX were powered up and the FCM/Zoom inspected - Auto. All turned off, then on in sequence. Flash showed zoom 50mm until shot taken, when display now showed Mzoom 24mm. (I presume that this is the full setting for a head-set zoom setting.)

Still all powered up, I returned to FCM/Zoom and pressed Set twice. The flash display changed to zoom 50mm sensor-adjusted. (Correct for camera setting and lens.)

Several testers have discussed the zoom logic with Pixel. I suspect that they do not understand that we often use Zoom as a light modifier, especially as Auto is irrelevant for off-camera flash. The outcome was the same - silence.

As a (retired) programmer, I wonder what the rules should be...


Clive, and Great G/D Abbie
50D; 580EXII, 430EXII, 550EX, YN685EX; YN-622C II, YN622C-TX and YN560-TX controllers TOYUG II v5.10 YN622 System Guide (external link)
I tried retiring, but gave it up - it's a dead end

  
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rebop
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Mar 24, 2012 17:44 |  #293

Thanks. Glad you were able to confirm.

Would be nice to have this work so I have the option to use auto zoom or not depending on the camera setting At least there is a workaround, but would be nice to have a firmware update.


I'm Bob and I'm an L-coholic
1DX - 6D - G5 X
16-35
L - 24-105 L - 24-70 II L
70-200 2.8 L - 70-300 L - 100 2.8 L Macro

  
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elv
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Mar 24, 2012 22:18 as a reply to  @ rebop's post |  #294

Can you guys sum up where we are at now with the zoom?

Can you with any (compatible) body or flash set a manual zoom other than 50mm (from the flash, camera or however), and retain that without any issues of it going back to auto or another zoom setting when you don't want it to?

I say zoom other than 50mm because obviously if you tilt the flash head it goes to 50mm and the kings loose control anyway.


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rebop
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Mar 24, 2012 22:20 |  #295

I will have to try this tomorrow. I know that auto does not stick until it is touched again on the camera, but have not tried setting to a manual zoom and seeing if that sticks. I'll give it a try.

~Bob


I'm Bob and I'm an L-coholic
1DX - 6D - G5 X
16-35
L - 24-105 L - 24-70 II L
70-200 2.8 L - 70-300 L - 100 2.8 L Macro

  
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CliveyBoy
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Mar 25, 2012 02:44 |  #296

elv wrote in post #14147861 (external link)
Can you with any (compatible) body or flash set a manual zoom other than 50mm (from the flash, camera or however), and retain that without any issues of it going back to auto or another zoom setting when you don't want it to?

I say zoom other than 50mm because obviously if you tilt the flash head it goes to 50mm and the kings loose control anyway.

Tilt or rotate the 580EXII head, or draw the wide panel, mechanical switches as you say over-ride. The rest is more messy, and I am trying to make a set of rules which would fit on Canon and get as near as we may to what a real photographer might want.

Relevant to the discussion in the last few posts: Speedlite Manual P32 "If any Speedlite Custom Functions and flash function settings other than flash exposure compensation have been set by both the camera and Speedlite, the latest setting will take effect." How Canon determines "latest" with disconnected units is not clear - probably latest powered up. The Kings of course can be driven only by what Canon has provided or permits to be modified (eg disable a menu item).

There are a number of special circumstances to be taken into account, but more important for the Kings is the range of photogs' visions that need to be accommodated. I would like to see what this forum thinks before sending suggested rules to Pixel.


Clive, and Great G/D Abbie
50D; 580EXII, 430EXII, 550EX, YN685EX; YN-622C II, YN622C-TX and YN560-TX controllers TOYUG II v5.10 YN622 System Guide (external link)
I tried retiring, but gave it up - it's a dead end

  
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rebop
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Mar 25, 2012 10:05 as a reply to  @ CliveyBoy's post |  #297

OK, just did some testing.

1D MKIII, Kings, 580EXII

Turn everything on and the defaults on the camera are HiSpeed Sync and Auto Zoom. The flash comes up as Manual 24mm. Always.

Change the camera to First Curtain, 80mm. Everything changes to those settings. Shut all down, back to the above mentioned defaults.

Repower, change again to First Curtain and 80 mm. All stays. Turn off the flash and receiver and repower them, no change. Turn the camera on and off and no change. But turn off JUST the transmitter (or any combination with the transmitter) and we are back to the defaults of Auto and HiSpeed on the camera and the flash reverts to manual 24mm.

So the changes are driven by a power cycle of the transmitter regardless of power cycling anything else including the camera itself.

Does this help?

~Bob


I'm Bob and I'm an L-coholic
1DX - 6D - G5 X
16-35
L - 24-105 L - 24-70 II L
70-200 2.8 L - 70-300 L - 100 2.8 L Macro

  
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elv
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Mar 25, 2012 18:52 as a reply to  @ rebop's post |  #298

Thanks Bob, yes thats great information.

When you say its set to auto though and the flash reverts to 24mm, are you using a zoom lense and does the flash then change zoom all the time with you zoom the lense?

Personally I think they should just scrap the remote zoom alltogether. It would be great if they could make it work but that is always going to be difficult when they have to work through the Canon systems.

The priority to me is just being able to set a zoom length for the flash and not have anything change that unless I want it to. If that means loosing any remote control of the zoom thats better than hassles with it changing all the time.


FLASHHAVOC.COM (external link)

  
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rebop
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Mar 25, 2012 19:07 |  #299

If I touch auto on the camera, Elv, the flash zooms with the lens. But if I turn the transmitter off, then on, even though the camera is set to auto, the flash is a manual zoom 24 mm. This is with a 24-70 zoom on the camera.

Go back and touch auto again, and it works fine and as expected.

And, if the camera is set to 80mm, it sets the zoom on the flash correctly. But again. turn the transmitter off and on again and the flash reverts to manual 24mm and the camera reverts to auto.

Same thing with first curtain and high speed flash. Simply turning the transmitter off then on resets these on the camera. So it defaults to hi-speed and auto and then the auto will not work until touched in the camera menu.

~Bob


I'm Bob and I'm an L-coholic
1DX - 6D - G5 X
16-35
L - 24-105 L - 24-70 II L
70-200 2.8 L - 70-300 L - 100 2.8 L Macro

  
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Capeachy
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Mar 26, 2012 10:49 |  #300

Hi Bob,

I can confirm everything you are seeing is the same for my 50D + 430EXII.


Photography is the art of exclusion

  
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Pixel King ETTL Trigger Controller
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