Low light, moving target

So tonight I had the opportunity to test out a new 24-105L on my T2i photographing my 22 month old son scurrying about our living room. No flash, just a corner floor lamp and 4 compact fluorescent blubs from the ceiling fan overhead (room is approximately 18x20).

I shot about 25 images, all at f/4 with ISO between 1600 and 3200 and shutter between 1/50 to 1/15 at varying focal lengths (mainly 60-100mm though). Almost all came out blurry as he was rapidly darting around the room, or standing up, looking around, etc.

A flash (probably 580ex II) is on the short list for the upcoming winter imposed indoor shooting months, but that aside; should I be looking at a different (faster) lens for this application? Most of what I was shooting was headshot/upper body shots with a few full bodies thrown in - so maybe a EF 85mm f/1.8 would make sense?

It was much easier shooting him with the kit 18-55 and built in flash last year when he was still a baby and not mobile and I didn't care about trying to actually learn how to take proper pictures!

This was the best I was able to get....

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The above is pretty good for 1/50. I rarely get keepers of my energetic son slower than 1/200, and even that is marginal. I find the 85 f/1.8 problematic on FF for my living room -- unless you have a biiig place you'll find yourself cramped with your cropper. Also note that the minimum focus distance distance is like 3 feet which is also a problem indoors. I have better luck with mine outdoors with a bit of distance.

Also note that at 85mm, f/1.8 at indoor distances has a pretty narrow DoF, which can be an issue for a subject who isn't posing with eyes square to the focal plane. F/2.8 does better for me.

With a flash in M mode you can select a lower ISO and stop down for DoF, with the result that the flash provides all the light, so you effectively get like a 1/1000 shutter for freezing subject motion. Flash is tricky and can be complex, with modifiers and bouncing, but for indoor shots of my (autistic) son it's the only viable option.

After tonight's lens trial I'm seriously considering exchanging the 24-104L for a 17-55 (or possibly 15-85). I really hate losing the extra reach; but the f/2.8 may make up for it with pictures I can actually use/keep.

You could also look into a really fast lens like the 50mm f/1.4 - currently around $390 US won't break the bank and you won't lose any flexibility in being able to go back to the other lens. You might be tempted to leave it on all the time though, shooting it at f/8 outdoors...In practical terms I think the great low-light autofocusing ability of the lens should allow pretty quick captures with AI Servo AF mode on, and pretty decent in One-Shot mode as well. The DOF shouldn't be a big problem, but sharpness could be. But even if you stop that lens down, you'll get the benefit of better autofocus without breaking the bank. A 17-55mm f/2.8 would be a "do most everything" lens, though.

It's a tough call. I really, really want to love the 24-105; but i'm not looking forward to December-March being cooped up inside with only it. I had also considered the 50mm f/1.4 as a possible solution since i'm not sure moving down a full stop will be enough to accomplish what I'm after (basically not having to use a flash inside all the time). Prime may be the best way to go!

snyder17315 wrote in post #13033917
It's a tough call. I really, really want to love the 24-105; but i'm not looking forward to December-March being cooped up inside with only it. I had also considered the 50mm f/1.4 as a possible solution since i'm not sure moving down a full stop will be enough to accomplish what I'm after (basically not having to use a flash inside all the time). Prime may be the best way to go!

Your best bet is constant use of the flash. If you're getting 1/50sec right now, a f/2.8 will get you 1/100sec at the same conditions. At f/1.4, you'll get 1/200sec... is that fast enough? Will you have enough in focus at f/1.4?

I'd get a flash over a f/2.8 lens for indoor family shooting. I started with a 2.8 lens (24-70mm) before getting a flash and found the flash made the bigger difference.

Of course f/2.8 and a flash is best, but f/4 + flash would be good as well.

snyder17315 wrote in post #13033917
It's a tough call. I really, really want to love the 24-105; but i'm not looking forward to December-March being cooped up inside with only it. I had also considered the 50mm f/1.4 as a possible solution since i'm not sure moving down a full stop will be enough to accomplish what I'm after (basically not having to use a flash inside all the time). Prime may be the best way to go!

Prime is always better, regardless of indoor or outdoor:p Zoom is only good at one thing really - versatility. Nothing more than that.

Anyway, 85mm is too long for indoor in most cases, consider a fast prime within the 30-50mm range. 15-85 is also not the best choice for indoor as it's not 2.8.

kin2son wrote in post #13034071
Prime is always better, regardless of indoor or outdoor:p Zoom is only good at one thing really - versatility. Nothing more than that.

Right -- because shooting an unpredictable and active toddler totally doesn't need versatility.

With kids moving all the time, I rarely shoot at wide apertures. IMO, when in comes to indoor snapshots, its f5.6 with flash (1/80 - 1/125s). Its nice to have natural light shots but it is unrealistic to think that all situations a child gets into can be shot with natural/ambient light. The 24-105 is a well regarded lens, and a nice range for general purpose. If you are going to invest, the flash will likely make the biggest difference for your snapshot type photography. Add a 50mm f1.4 of f1.8 for those more creative shots - the flash will help here too...

The 430EX can be had for $200 used, and a 50mm for $100 used. Two or three sets of eneloops and a smart charger and you are set. These will compliment your 24-105 and body, while allowing for and expanded range of styles.

Best of luck...

javig999 wrote in post #13034202
With kids moving all the time, I rarely shoot at wide apertures. IMO, when in comes to indoor snapshots, its f5.6 with flash (1/80 - 1/125s). Its nice to have natural light shots but it is unrealistic to think that all situations a child gets into can be shot with natural/ambient light. The 24-105 is a well regarded lens, and a nice range for general purpose. If you are going to invest, the flash will likely make the biggest difference for your snapshot type photography. Add a 50mm f1.4 of f1.8 for those more creative shots - the flash will help here too...

The 430EX can be had for $200 used, and a 50mm for $100 used. Two or three sets of eneloops and a smart charger and you are set. These will compliment your 24-105 and body, while allowing for and expanded range of styles.

Best of luck...

I agree. I could not have stated it better!

I'm set to pull the trigger purchasing Canon 24-105. I've been using my Tamron 17-50 non vc for almost 2 years now... most pics are keepers especially shooting my toddler. At f2.8 is not fast enough without using flash indoors. I'm planning to buy 24-105 for versatility purpose without sacrificing IQ I think. I experiment shooting indoors set to f4 with my tammy with flash produces great results. Maybe you should use flash, with some technique, bounce flash works for me well.

GregoryF wrote in post #13034231
I agree. I could not have stated it better!

+1. Get a good flash first, and bounce it. Nothing beats adding light..

You could also get the same increase, realistically, in any particular room by doubling the amount of light in that room as you would going to a f/2.8 zoom. You stated that you had 4 CF bulbs.. Add a second lamp on the other side of the room, similarly equipped with bulbs, and point them to the ceiling if it is white (bounce ?). I prefer the Daylight bulbs, and get the same brand with the same kelvin rating to keep the light more constant. watt per watt, the daylight type bulbs seem to be brighter than the yellow CF bulbs do. The daylight bulbs also tend to work better with flash as they are more similar in color cast.

My son is 28 mths and has added vertical scurrying in addition to all the running around. I probably have similar lighting as you and even with the 17-55 wide open, I still get alot of motion blur. Like your picture, watching TV shots tend to come out better, since he turns into a zombie, but compositionwise I find them boring with no emotion.

f/1.4-2.0 might get you enough shutter speed for more keepers, but you will see the most immediate results by adding a flash, learning how to use bounce it indoors, and figuring out how best to white balance. I would also recommend the 580exII rather than the 430exII because you will want 360 degrees of rotation, its my biggest complaint. When you first get it, put it in high speed sync mode, play around with the flash exposure compensation, play around with bouncing the flash, and shoot away. Your 24-105 will seem like a new lens for inside, unless you are looking for that think DOF. Once you feel up to it, you can start learning more about what the flash can do indoors and outside.

snyder17315 wrote in post #13033764
After tonight's lens trial I'm seriously considering exchanging the 24-104L for a 17-55 (or possibly 15-85). I really hate losing the extra reach; but the f/2.8 may make up for it with pictures I can actually use/keep.

I swapped the 24-105L out for the 17-55 2.8 IS. No regrets.