7D Soft Images

Hi,

I have only had the camera for about a week, but am troubled by the "soft" look of the pictures straight out of the camera. I am shooting all RAW pics and have tried all the different combos from full Auto to full Manual. Don't get me wrong - I am no professional but from what I have read and seen for myself there is a real issue here. And this is not from pixel peeping either.

I have read a lot of reveiews and peoples opinions about this issue. I have tried to convince myself that I would be happy with the results after PP - but somehow this seemed odd to have to rely on PP for a decent picture with this level of Camera?

My big hangup with this is that I have spent $3000 for a camera and lens and I can't get a sharp picture straight out of the camera? I have to do PP to improve the image. I am quite disappointed as I do truly love the features of this camera and wish I was over the moon with it. It sucks though when your wife is looking over your shoulder and commenting that they dont seem to be very sharp even relative to a P&S.

I bought it for the AF / Movie and sports capability, but whats the point if the images are disappointing straight out of the camera?

And I crazy to expect a $3000 camera/lens combo to be able to give me a razor sharp image as shot? What am I missing.

I know a lot of you will say that these tack sharp results can be had with a lot of PP but I want a high quality pic right out of the camera and then do PP if I decide I want to - NOT BECAUSE I HAVE TOO.

I can still return this camera and get another. At this point I am willing to go another brand to get what I want. I am reluctant to get the 5Dmk2 as it lacks the quality AF and sports shooting of the 7D.

Is there a camera/lens combo for $3000 out there that will satisfy me?


Please forgive my ramblings and help as this is really bumming me out.

Hi - I don't have your lens but I do use a 7D and it can give razor sharp results straight out of the camera. Like you, I was very disappointed when I first got my 7D - soft soft images! I found that I had to spend a LOT of time learning to use the different focussing options then some more time micro adjusting my lenses for the camera. There really isn't any short cut but the 7D will repay the time you spend!

Just to make sure you haven't got a "duff" camera/lens -mount your camera on a tripod, use Live View, manual focus, maximum magnification and take a few shots in good light, perfect exposure, then look at them on the computer at 100%. They should be perfect.

good luck!
grahame s

Most of the 7D soft image threads are a result of user error.

I would suggest you not shoot raw for awhile - understand that raw can mean a lot of different things depending how you have your converter set up.

DDP and PS tend to do things a little different with the raw's.

Anyway shoot jpeg with the sharpening turned up a notch or 2 in camera.

Watch the 7D videos on the B&H website and read the CF PDF's

It's a known fact that one has to apply a bit more sharpening to the 7D's files. Half the process of getting a picture is developing it in post so for you to say that you aren't satisfied when there's 100's of people that are, then the posibility of this being a situation where user error is to be blamed stands out.

Hi Grahemesode,

I have not tried any MA on my len, will that have a noticeable effect? I'm guessing its trial and error to find the right correction?

Hi Palladium,

All my PP is done in Photoshop CS5 (using Camera RAW)


I have read that the AA in the 7D is too agressive? Anyone agree with that. Is that something that a software/firmware update to the camera can fix?


Thanks

As others have said the 7D images do need a bit more sharpening in PP, but the camera is capable of great images. To be honest your lens isn't top class and 18MP certainly shows the flaws if your glass is under par, as it does with bad technique. My walk round is the Canon 15-85 which is a good lens even though it isn't an L here's an example. Also post some of your images so folk can check them out.

General_T wrote in post #13035529
Hi Grahemesode,

I have not tried any MA on my len, will that have a noticeable effect? I'm guessing its trial and error to find the right correction?

Hi Palladium,

All my PP is done in Photoshop CS5 (using Camera RAW)

I have read that the AA in the 7D is too agressive? Anyone agree with that. Is that something that a software/firmware update to the camera can fix?

Thanks

MA can be an issue but you should post samples first to determine if that might be it. The AA filter has been discussed quite extensively and a lot of people blame it for the images that require quite a bit more sharpening as previously stated.

With higher MP count, getting motion-induced blur is very likely. Canon recommends doubling your shutter-speed than what you normally shoot with. Also, it is not recommended to pixel-peep at 100% crop to gauge pixel sharpness since the higher MP count will reveal that motion-induced blurriness.

General_T wrote in post #13035529
...

All my PP is done in Photoshop CS5 (using Camera RAW)...

Using PS's converter is good but that's just the beginning

within Camera Raw you have many decisions to make. I would suggest that your set up default profiles for each ISO for the 7D. I would pay special attention to the Chroma and Luminance noise reduction settings for each ISO eg. gradually increasing these settings as your ISO increases.

It's been suggested and probably proven that using Canon software DDP with RAW images improves the images noise by about 1 stop.

Palladium wrote in post #13035670
Using PS's converter is good but that's just the beginning

within Camera Raw you have many decisions to make. I would suggest that your set up default profiles for each ISO for the 7D. I would pay special attention to the Chroma and Luminance noise reduction settings for each ISO eg. gradually increasing these settings as your ISO increases.

It's been suggested and probably proven that using Canon software DDP with RAW images improves the images noise by about 1 stop.

Also, to touch on what Palladium said; if you do use a lot of noise reduction that can make your images look softer.

artyman wrote in post #13035578
As others have said the 7D images do need a bit more sharpening in PP, but the camera is capable of great images. To be honest your lens isn't top class and 18MP certainly shows the flaws if your glass is under par, as it does with bad technique. My walk round is the Canon 15-85 which is a good lens even though it isn't an L here's an example. Also post some of your images so folk can check them out.

That, I am sorry to say, is completely inaccurate. The 17-55 is very, very capable of very, very sharp images wide-open and can go head to head against the L's in this range (24-70, 24-105). That lens, coupled with the 10-22, are the two reasons many people end up getting a crop body.

Don't go dismissing the lens just yet, let's just take a look at some test images to see where the issue lies.

General_T wrote in post #13035529
Hi Grahemesode,

I have not tried any MA on my len, will that have a noticeable effect? I'm guessing its trial and error to find the right correction?

Hi Palladium,

All my PP is done in Photoshop CS5 (using Camera RAW)


I have read that the AA in the 7D is too agressive? Anyone agree with that. Is that something that a software/firmware update to the camera can fix?


Thanks

The AA filter is a physical optical unit, you can send it in to places to replace it with other pieces of glass, but I would strongly suggest not doing that. It is not too aggressive, Canon put it at the level they feel it needs to be for the density of the sensor.

Let's just start at the basic "battery test" (http://cameralightlens​.com …1/01/CLL-focus-test-1.jpg)

Set up 5 AA batteries staggered from each other about a battery's length apart from each other.

Make sure you have bright light over the entire scene. Set your camera to Av, ISO 400, aperture of f2.8, set to One Shot, set EC to +1/3, and try to get to a shutter of 1/160th or faster if possible.

Then get down to the same level as the batteries, stand back about a yard/meter, zoom to 55mm, focus with manual center AF point on the center of the 5 batteries, and take a shot. Do this a few times to make sure you have a consistent pic.

This will 1) help identify whether you can even get a sharp pic at all w/the 7D, 2) whether the lens can provide a sharp enough photo wide open to please you, and 3) whether the 7D+lens is front or back focusing.

TeamSpeed suggested the battery test... but the link is somewhat misleading. As he mentions make sure you are shooting straight on towards the batteries and not downward as the picture shows (done to show you the spacing).

I have had no problems...

These images were shot with the 7D camera right out of the box using the default parameters of exposure and focus... 70-200mm f/4L IS lens, 550EX flash bounced using a Stroboframe Camera Flip Bracket and modified with a Joe Demb Flash Diffuser Pro...

IMAGE LINK: http://rpcrowe.smugmug​.com …bqh#1245211231_​aEf5x-A-LB

IMAGE LINK: http://rpcrowe.smugmug​.com …bqh#1244551055_​ox8GE-A-LB

IMAGE LINK: http://rpcrowe.smugmug​.com …bqh#1244840976_​GPhDr-A-LB

IMAGE LINK: http://rpcrowe.smugmug​.com …bqh#1244320241_​7kTXJ-A-LB

I shoot exclusively with a 7D and I NEVER have to apply any sort of sharpening in post! I'd say spend more time with the camera and understand that you use it differently than say, a T2i or 5D...