In-camera Sharpening = DPP Sharpening?

It has been discussed here a while ago how sharpening using DPP is better than using ACR or even Lightroom as it brings out more detail while not bringing noise up much. I specially remember a image of a tree, where the blue sky got silk smooth using DPP and blue-sand-like using ACR.

My question is: does the in-camera sharpening apply the same algorithms for sharpening as DPP, or does it use any kind of "simplified" (read it as "worse") version?

I could test it myself but I'll be without my camera this weekend, so if any of you guys know and want to share

Hmm, sounds pretty one-sided to me...I'm a fan of DPP, but I've never run it through this kind of test. It would, I imagine, require some real analyis!

I think that sharpening in DPP is more sophisticated than 'in camera'. This is especially true of the latest versions of DPP which include unsharp mask as well as standard sharpening.
I have Lightroom and CS5, but I keep coming back to DPP for my initial processing as it works so well.
(Latest DPP version 3.10.2.0)

Alex_Venom wrote in post #13047880
It has been discussed here a while ago how sharpening using DPP is better than using ACR or even Lightroom as it brings out more detail while not bringing noise up much. I specially remember a image of a tree, where the blue sky got silk smooth using DPP and blue-sand-like using ACR.

My question is: does the in-camera sharpening apply the same algorithms for sharpening as DPP, or does it use any kind of "simplified" (read it as "worse") version?

I could test it myself but I'll be without my camera this weekend, so if any of you guys know and want to share

My shots turn out better since I set In-camera sharpening to 0, and In-camera contrast to minus 4 (-4). I do PP (RAW, not jpg) in DPP exclusively. DPP does a better job than the 7D's firmware.

Cheers,

Leon

Alex_Venom wrote in post #13047880
It has been discussed here a while ago how sharpening using DPP is better than using ACR or even Lightroom as it brings out more detail while not bringing noise up much. I specially remember a image of a tree, where the blue sky got silk smooth using DPP and blue-sand-like using ACR.

My question is: does the in-camera sharpening apply the same algorithms for sharpening as DPP, or does it use any kind of "simplified" (read it as "worse") version?

I could test it myself but I'll be without my camera this weekend, so if any of you guys know and want to share

I don't see mentioned if you're talking RAW or JPEG files....
I don't know about the QUALITY/NATURE of the sharpening but in terms of QUANTITY....
If RAW, DPP and in-cam sharpening is the same, I've always read...set in-cam sharpening to 7 and it will be 7 (out of 10) in DPP
...and when looking at the RAW and JPEG version side-by-side...
The RAW image at the default (in-cam set) sharpening level, JPEG version of the same image shows sharpening to be the same but the level is "0"....

You can return the RAW sharpening to "0" and compare it to the JPEG set at "7" in camera........
....and you can take a series of shots with in-cam sharpening set at "0" and compare RAW to JPEG...I haven't....

Interesting question. i will have to do a test myself.

I shoot RAW and have always been impressed with the sharpening in ACR. It looked about the same to me when sharpened in DPP.

I think it depends on how used you are to the ACR controls.

AFAIK, sharpening in the camera only affects JPEG, not RAW. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong.

As I said...sharpening , and ALL OTHER IN-CAMERA SETTINGS, are the default settings for DPP when you open DPP...but, as I said, ALL the SETTINGS can be altered, modified to fit your view of the scene, or how you want the scene to appear.

LudwigVB wrote in post #13052318
AFAIK, sharpening in the camera only affects JPEG, not RAW. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong.

It writes the settings into the file as meta data, so opening the RAW in DPP will have you in camera settings applied.

Thanks for the clarification. So the RAW that appears in DPP does carry the info from in-camera settings ("styles") but that can still be altered or removed altogether in DPP if so desired. With JPEG, though, I guess you're stuck with it.

Hi,

You can always adjust the "Style" settings (in the camera)to your preference for JPEGS. You could simply "0" them all.

You could also alter the JPEGs in PP, but why do that when you can just set them up within the camera to begin with, as you prefer?


Tony

LudwigVB wrote in post #13052318
AFAIK, sharpening in the camera only affects JPEG, not RAW. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong.

You are correct except...

If you allow DPP to apply "as shot", it will use whatever the camera was set to when processing the RAW, everything in the Picture Style that was selected including sharpening. So, if you have sharpening set high in the camera, it could apply a lot of sharpening in the software, if you let it. But you can always go back and re-process the image (so long as you keep the RAW file) using different settings.

Lightroom, CS5 and ACR don't care what you've got set in the camera. They just ignore it.

If I recall correctly, by default LR has 1, 25, 0 sharpening set during Export (RAW conversion). That's usually way too little with 7D RAW files, but really not bad for the initial sharpening with 50D and 5DII. I don't remember if ACR uses the same.... Most of the time I'm working through LR first, then passing the images off to PS for finishing.

I try to keep this initial sharpening to a minimum, during RAW conversion and while other work is still to be done on the image. Then, last thing before output, I always do another, final sharpening. The strength of this sharpening differs depending upon the intended output of the image... It will be more or less depending upon size of print, type of paper it's being printed on, or if it's just going to be displayed at Internet resolution, etc.

LudwigVB wrote in post #13056073
Thanks for the clarification. So the RAW that appears in DPP does carry the info from in-camera settings ("styles") but that can still be altered or removed altogether in DPP if so desired. With JPEG, though, I guess you're stuck with it.

Exactly.

This also means that if you use anything other than DPP the settings on the RAW are ignored as they aren't understood.

It does also suggest that the same algorithm is used in the camera firmware and in DPP, otherwise transferring sharpening parameters from camera to DPP would be problematic.

FWIW, for critical sharpening, using PS, after sizing and cropping I convert to LAB colourspace, sharpen only the L channel, then convert to what is needed (typically RGB).