Canon Xti Owner that wants to upgrade

I have had the Canon Xti for about two to three years. I am a novice who loves to shoot family, vacations, help out on weddings, and other stuff. Lenses I have include the kit IS lens, 50mm 1.8, 55-250, and love to shoot the 10-22 canon ultra wide. I have difficulty with low light shots. My xti is still an adequate camera but went to a camera store today and loved the feel of the 60d but might be a little out of my budget. Should I go for it or just step up to the latest rebel (t2i or t3i) in which I would just buy the body only. I also have been toying with the idea of trading in my xti on the canon loyalty program but am leery of getting a refurb camera. I know this question gets played out alot but would love to get some feedback as I could really use some good advice. Thanks for taking the time to read and give some expert advice.

Theres a couple of different questions you pose in this post.

1 - Should you upgrade?
2 - How good is a refurbished camera?

I think #1 is the most important. I've had an XtI for a number or years and I still haven't outgrown it.
In my opinion, if you don't make money from your photos (like me) you really have to ask yourself why you want to upgrade. Is it just "gear envy" because there are new models that have new features. Or do you really need those features?

I was lucky enough and the timing was right to pick up one of the last 5Dc in Canada. But I'm still learning and have not mastered the technical details to photography enough to say I need a new camera. My xti (especially with the hack) does everything I need.

So unless you have a grand or two laying around, I'd say expand your knowledge base and conquer that "difficulty with low light shots" before worrying about getting new hardware.

I was in your shoes a year or so again. I had the XTI and was just learning. I have been paid once or twice for a few "jobs" but I wouldn't consider myself making money off this hobby.

You should look into getting something like a used 40D or 50D, you can easily find a 40D for around $400 and it will be a big upgrade from your XTI.

I liked my XTI but fell in love with the 40D once I got it.

But .... the "big upgrade" from the xTi to the 40D is features - not a lot of difference in IQ or AF.

So if the OP doesn't need the features ...... why upgrade.

I upgraded from the XTi to 60D recently using the loyalty program. First of all, don't send your XTi in to get recycled. I went to the thrift store and got a $3 old Canon film camera to send in. I couldn't even tell my 60D was refurbished. As you probably know you get a new battery, strap, cables, etc. along with the camera body. I didn't bother trying to get a shutter count and so far it's working great. I would not hesitate to get a Canon refurb product.

That said, I feel I didn't NEED to upgrade yet due to outgrowing my rebel. If the loyalty program wasn't such a good deal (and I wasn't hurting for a video-capable camera) I would have put the money towards an L lens and put off upgrading the body for another several months. I decided to jump on it since the 60D was available refurbished. My reasons for upgrading: my SO and I wanted 2 bodies for travel (we do make money from blogging, and thus photos indirectly), I needed a video function, and the higher ISO faster fps and wireless flash control are features I was looking for. Plus, the articulating screen, top LCD, second wheel and live view are great features that make shooting easier. With the body selling for $639 (+tax) through the loyalty program it was the right move for me.

It sounds like you'll appreciate the ability to use higher ISO in low light. I never went above 800 with the rebel, but with the 60D I once mistakenly walked around all day shooting at ISO 1250 and didn't notice any noise. I don't think upgrading to the latest in the rebel series will get you as much bang for your buck. Good luck!

WaltA wrote in post #13081632
Theres a couple of different questions you pose in this post.

1 - Should you upgrade?
2 - How good is a refurbished camera?

I think #1 is the most important. I've had an XtI for a number or years and I still haven't outgrown it.
In my opinion, if you don't make money from your photos (like me) you really have to ask yourself why you want to upgrade. Is it just "gear envy" because there are new models that have new features. Or do you really need those features?

I was lucky enough and the timing was right to pick up one of the last 5Dc in Canada. But I'm still learning and have not mastered the technical details to photography enough to say I need a new camera. My xti (especially with the hack) does everything I need.

So unless you have a grand or two laying around, I'd say expand your knowledge base and conquer that "difficulty with low light shots" before worrying about getting new hardware.

This.

KCmike wrote in post #13081547
I have had the Canon Xti for about two to three years. I am a novice who loves to shoot family, vacations, help out on weddings, and other stuff. Lenses I have include the kit IS lens, 50mm 1.8, 55-250, and love to shoot the 10-22 canon ultra wide. I have difficulty with low light shots.

If your primary difficulty is with low light shots, then a natural question follows from that: what software are you using to process your shots with? And are you shooting RAW?

Lightroom is excellent for processing high ISO shots. The noise reduction algorithms they use are excellent, yielding a pleasing film-like grain, and the sharpening tool has a masking function that will make it possible for you to sharpen edges and the like without sharpening the noise. You'll need to be shooting RAW to get the most out of it. If you're currently shooting JPEG, then start shooting RAW and postprocessing your images with Canon's Digital Photo Professional to get some idea of what's possible.


Also, which lens are you typically using for the low light shots you're having trouble with? If it's something other than your 50 f/1.8, then a wider aperture lens may be more appropriate for your situation (at the long end, however, that tends to come with its own set of tradeoffs -- you'll not find a wide-aperture telephoto lens with the compactness and low weight that your 55-250 has.

I wouldn't upgrade the camera just yet. Not unless it's the best way to achieve what you're after. But that's only if you like your XTi (the way it feels in your hand, etc.). If you don't like actually using your XTi because of its ergonomics then that's a good reason to upgrade. Why keep a body if it's no fun to use?

Thanks for the comments thus far. It is gear envy for sure. Here are some responses I have to some of the comments.

1. I don't feel comfortable with the hack for the higher ISO although I would love that feature and it would probably save me from me spending the $$$ on a new body.

2. On the low light shots I have tried shooting wide open, with a tripod, and using the 18-55 kit lens. I think tonight I've found out that I shouldn't have been using the IS portion when shooting. Newbie mistake. I typically don't do much post processing other than contrast and other basic features. One, I don't like doing it. I try to get the best possible shot straight out of the camera. Two, it feels like a fake when you manipulate the photo to certain degrees. Just my two cents. It just doesn't feel like "photography" when you have to manipulate a photo for a long period of time. I know certain people where they spend hours on one shot and they change so much of it that it just seems like a completely different photo. To me that is more computer work than photography work.

3. Heard about the trade in program and knew I shouldn't trade in my xti but thought I would buy the cheapest canon point and shoot to try to trade it in. Saw a canon a490 for $40 in an office depot the other day. Was thinking I could pass on the xti to one of my kids to have and maybe get into photography sooner than I did. One has expressed interest.

4. I shoot mostly in jpeg but recently have been doing both that and raw with the feature on the camera. I know I should shoot in raw but don't know why I don't. Lazy probably.

5. While playing with the 60d today it just felt good in my hands not that I have a problem with the xti though. The shots I was taking in the store came out clean and crisp with the 18-135. The ergonomics were nice. Probably not worth the price tag? Or is it?

6. The 40d doesn't have much more features I don't think?

7. Anyone else experience the trade in policy? Is it worth the savings to go refurbish?

KCmike wrote in post #13082323
Thanks for the comments thus far. It is gear envy for sure. Here are some responses I have to some of the comments.

1. I don't feel comfortable with the hack for the higher ISO although I would love that feature and it would probably save me from me spending the $$$ on a new body.

You can achieve the same result by underexposing your shot at ISO 1600 by one stop and then pushing it in post. But you'll want to shoot RAW for that.

Turning off IS will probably help if you've got the camera on a tripod (I thought the IS design accounted for that, though. Maybe not with the kit lens).

Manipulation of the photo in the darkroom is a time-honored tradition. Ansel Adams took it to a whole new level. When you're manipulating the photo on the computer, you're doing the same thing that you'd be doing in the darkroom, only with more flexible and capable tools.

That shouldn't stop you from trying to get the best shot you can straight from the camera, though. The better the source material, the better the end result will be.

You might be able to get away with even less money out than that, but that would certainly be a reasonable approach all in all (see below).

Only you can decide if it's worth the price tag. But keep in mind that you have other options. You can, for instance buy a used 40D for quite a bit less (around $400 on the sell forums here on POTN) than you'd pay for a 60D, but the 60D from CLP is a steal right now at around $640 (according to this).

Than the XTi? Yes, it does:

• Cross-type autofocus points in all 9 locations. Fast autofocus, too. Good for action.
  
• Extra-sensitive center point with f/2.8 and faster lenses
  
• 6.5 FPS burst rate
  
• ISO 3200 through expansion (though you'll get the same results by taking an ISO 1600 shot and pushing it a stop in post)
  
• Live view
  
• xxD ergonomics (rear control dial, rear joystick that can be used to select autofocus points, etc.)
  
• Custom modes: set your camera up, store it in a custom mode (located on the mode dial). Wanna switch back to those settings? Just switch the camera to that mode and you're set.

Only you can decide if it's worth the savings. If I'm not mistaken, the warranty on the refurbished units via CLP is 90 days instead of a year. But at $640 for the refurbished unit, you'll be saving quite a lot of money -- around $250.

Too many people here upgrade bodies and they still don't use their discarded camera to within 20% of what they are capable of doing.
If you are a novice STAY with the Rebel. When you no longer are a novice and can use/understand the added features of a xxD THEN buy one. Spend your money on lenses.

philmar wrote in post #13082910
Too many people here upgrade bodies and they still don't use their discarded camera to within 20% of what they are capable of doing.
If you are a novice STAY with the Rebel. When you no longer are a novice and can use/understand the added features of a xxD THEN buy one. Spend your money on lenses.

This. The only exception is if the camera is uncomfortable to use (it's a shame the Rebels are so small).

My first camera purchase was an XTi. I wound up returning it and getting a 30D (which was the current offering at the time) because the XTi would cause my hand to cramp if I tried to use it or carry it for too long.

If that's your situation then I'd upgrade for sure, simply because the whole point of this is to have fun, and it's hard to have fun when the camera is uncomfortable to use.


But if it's comfortable to use, then try to get the most out of it first, and upgrade only if you can't get what you need out of it (e.g., if you get to the point where the autofocus system starts to limit you or something).

KCmike wrote in post #13081547
I have difficulty with low light shots.

Buy an external flash (430 if budget is tight)

KCmike wrote in post #13081547
loved the feel of the 60d

Buy the battery grip. BG-E3

Thanks for the honest and candid replies. If you all were in my shoes which lens would be the next logical/best choice for me? Trying to get better all around shots.

KCmike wrote in post #13084107
Thanks for the honest and candid replies. If you all were in my shoes which lens would be the next logical/best choice for me? Trying to get better all around shots.

The first question to help you answer that one is: what do you feel is lacking about the shots that you're currently taking? You need to be more specific about what you mean by "better", because that can mean many things.

About the only thing your current lens kit is lacking is wide apertures for everything but 50mm. Since you have a 50mm f/1.8, you know what a nice, wide aperture can do for you (both in terms of letting light through and in terms of shallow depth of field).

That's going to raise the question of where in the focal length range you want wider apertures than what you've already got. As regards subject isolation, a wider aperture will have more effect on the shorter focal length range than the longer range.

Many people who are looking to upgrade their lenses start off by picking up a constant f/2.8 zoom in the 17-55 range, and there are several alternatives available for that. The best ones, in ascending order of price, are the Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 non-VC, the Sigma 17-50 f/2.8 OS, and the Canon 17-55 f/2.8 IS.

Another alternative would be primes in the 17-50 range. You already have 50mm covered, so the next logical place might be a "normal" lens such as the Sigma 30 f/1.4 or the Canon 28 f/1.8.


Much depends on what focal lengths you really want your wider apertures to be at.


You shouldn't make any decisions about it until you can definitively answer, with specificity, exactly what you feel is lacking in your shots.

when I had my XTI, I NEVER took the battery grip off. Without it the camera was just too small in my hands and awkward to hold. If you're going to keep your XTI, I highly recommend getting the grip it was vastly improve how it feels in your hands.

My third upgrade for my XTI after the grip was a 430ex as someone already mentioned. Instantly improved my indoor a shots a great deal, you can't even compare on camera flash to an external flash bounced off the ceiling.