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Thread started 11 Sep 2011 (Sunday) 06:15
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Different Programs, Different Image Output

 
litratista
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Sep 11, 2011 06:15 |  #1

I use 3 software for image editing, CS3, Lightroom, and Canon's Digital Photo Professional (DPP). I use Zoombrowser to, well of course, browse the images quicker. Initially I use DPP to process my raw and transfer to Adobe for post processing because I didn't have anything before than that, until I started using lightroom recently. I noticed that there is a saturation change from canon to adobe when transferred from one program to another. Whenever I use LR for my raw and open it with the canon's zoom browser, same thing happens, it gets more saturated. Now I'm not really sure which program is adjusting what and I guess I need to calibrate something. The windows picture images and fax viewer show the same output as the zoombrowser so I dont know if I need to tinker adobe. At the moment I just offset everything to compensate the result. Anyone have the same problem? Or can help me. Thanks!


5D Mark III, 5D mark II, EF 50mm f/1.2L USM, EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM, Tokina 11-16mm F2.8, EF 24mm-105mm f/4.0L IS USM

  
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litratista
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Sep 11, 2011 09:16 |  #2

Well since no one replied and after an hour on checking, the problem is the proof setup.


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MrAl
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Sep 11, 2011 09:38 as a reply to  @ litratista's post |  #3

If the images have a color profile other than sRGB they will look more saturated in non color managed programs....this trips up lots of folks.




  
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tonylong
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Sep 11, 2011 15:49 |  #4

When your camera produces a Raw file it has also produced a jpeg "preview" that it embeds in the Raw file. It is this jpeg that you see when you review/play your images in the camera, and then the embedded jpeg is downloaded with the Raw file but it is not a separate file, just jpeg image data within the Raw file.

And, it's important to understand that this embedded jpeg is created using your in-camera settings -- the Picture Style with it's valuse for Contrast, Saturation and Sharpening, as well as White Balance, Noise Reduction, and other in-camera settings are applied. This gives that jpeg a "finished look".

You need to understand that ZoomBrowser is viewing the jpeg that the camera embedded into the Raw file, and also the Windows viewers are -- none of them are directly showing you the Raw data.

DPP is different. DPP will use your Raw data, but it uses your in-camera settings that create not just the embedded jpeg but also would be used to create a jpeg picture file if you shoot jpeg, but DPP reads those settings in the Raw file "metadata" and uses them to create a "jpeg-like preview" of your image. And so, your first preview in DPP is very much like your views in ZoomBroswer, as you have observed.

Lightroom, Adobe Camera Raw and other third-party Raw processors take a fundamentally different approach because Canon does not "share" the inner "secrets" of their in-camera settings. So Adobe and the others have developed the ability to translate the Raw data and produce/render their own image views, and to apply their own "flavor" to those images. With Adobe, the tendency is to be more "subdued" in things like Contrast, Saturation and Sharpening rather than start out as "strong" as your Canon "Standard" Picture Style. The Lightroom default is closer to the Canon Neutral Picture Style. In fact, if you set DPP (or your camera) to the Neutral Picture Style you will see a preview much closer to the Adobe default look.

Note that the Adobe Raw processors do have ways of altering that default look. In the Library module, you can click the Auto Tone button in the Quick Develop panel. In the Develop module you can scroll to the bottom of the adjustments area and there are Calibration profiles and you can choose a profile from the drop-down list, which will appy a "curve" that differs from the default, although I find that it still isn't as "strong" as the Canon variety. You can, by the way, have Adobe/Lightroom set a new Default using one of those profiles if you like.

So, the Adobe products start a bit more "subdued", leading people to complain about a "flat" look, but of course since these are Raw files one is free to operate on the Raw data.

DPP "sees" the same Raw data, it just uses the in-camera settings as the default. Of course in the DPP Raw tab you are also free to change things around.

I do enjoy using DPP for "quick" conversions -- in other words if I have shot some things that I would be happy with the in-camera settings I can, maybe with a little tweaking, do a quick conversion to get a useful jpeg from DPP.

But, for my "real" editing I do stick to Lightroom. It's pretty quick for me to get a good "look" that I can then apply to a batch of photos so they share the same "starting point". And, I'm not in the habit of comparing these images side-by-side with DPP previews!

I hope this helps. This gets asked pretty often by people new to this stuff. Please take your time!


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René ­ Damkot
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Sep 12, 2011 05:38 |  #5

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litratista
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Oct 22, 2011 09:20 |  #6

tonylong wrote in post #13085655 (external link)
When your camera produces a Raw file it has also produced a jpeg "preview" that it embeds in the Raw file. It is this jpeg that you see when you review/play your images in the camera, and then the embedded jpeg is downloaded with the Raw file but it is not a separate file, just jpeg image data within the Raw file.

And, it's important to understand that this embedded jpeg is created using your in-camera settings -- the Picture Style with it's valuse for Contrast, Saturation and Sharpening, as well as White Balance, Noise Reduction, and other in-camera settings are applied. This gives that jpeg a "finished look".

You need to understand that ZoomBrowser is viewing the jpeg that the camera embedded into the Raw file, and also the Windows viewers are -- none of them are directly showing you the Raw data.

DPP is different. DPP will use your Raw data, but it uses your in-camera settings that create not just the embedded jpeg but also would be used to create a jpeg picture file if you shoot jpeg, but DPP reads those settings in the Raw file "metadata" and uses them to create a "jpeg-like preview" of your image. And so, your first preview in DPP is very much like your views in ZoomBroswer, as you have observed.

Lightroom, Adobe Camera Raw and other third-party Raw processors take a fundamentally different approach because Canon does not "share" the inner "secrets" of their in-camera settings. So Adobe and the others have developed the ability to translate the Raw data and produce/render their own image views, and to apply their own "flavor" to those images. With Adobe, the tendency is to be more "subdued" in things like Contrast, Saturation and Sharpening rather than start out as "strong" as your Canon "Standard" Picture Style. The Lightroom default is closer to the Canon Neutral Picture Style. In fact, if you set DPP (or your camera) to the Neutral Picture Style you will see a preview much closer to the Adobe default look.

Note that the Adobe Raw processors do have ways of altering that default look. In the Library module, you can click the Auto Tone button in the Quick Develop panel. In the Develop module you can scroll to the bottom of the adjustments area and there are Calibration profiles and you can choose a profile from the drop-down list, which will appy a "curve" that differs from the default, although I find that it still isn't as "strong" as the Canon variety. You can, by the way, have Adobe/Lightroom set a new Default using one of those profiles if you like.

So, the Adobe products start a bit more "subdued", leading people to complain about a "flat" look, but of course since these are Raw files one is free to operate on the Raw data.

DPP "sees" the same Raw data, it just uses the in-camera settings as the default. Of course in the DPP Raw tab you are also free to change things around.

I do enjoy using DPP for "quick" conversions -- in other words if I have shot some things that I would be happy with the in-camera settings I can, maybe with a little tweaking, do a quick conversion to get a useful jpeg from DPP.

But, for my "real" editing I do stick to Lightroom. It's pretty quick for me to get a good "look" that I can then apply to a batch of photos so they share the same "starting point". And, I'm not in the habit of comparing these images side-by-side with DPP previews!

I hope this helps. This gets asked pretty often by people new to this stuff. Please take your time!

Very informative, thank you!


5D Mark III, 5D mark II, EF 50mm f/1.2L USM, EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM, Tokina 11-16mm F2.8, EF 24mm-105mm f/4.0L IS USM

  
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