Shooting a large group

My hairstylist asked me shoot her salon which has 18 people. I don't have much lighting experience, but agreed to try and help her out. I discussed with Debbie (owner) about how we could cluster a group that large and we were thinking to set up 4 chairs each occupied and have the rest of the folks surrounding them in various conversations.

I was thinking to rent an Alien Bees 800 or equal, and a softbox. I was going to set up the softbox just to my left with a couple of reflectors just out of the scene to the right and left of the group reflecting across to the faces on the opposite side.

I've also got a couple flashes I was thinking to use as back lights maybe with a colored gel.

I know 18 is going to be a challenge. Is there any chance this will work? Any recommendations or suggestions?

With all the lighting experts in the "Lighting" forum, I'm surprised no one has offered any suggestions or help by now.

Depends on how closely grouped you can get the people. I would have thought one AB800 bounced into a large silver or white umbrella would have done the trick. I also have a 20 person group shot coming up next month, my plan is to use two Elinchrom D-lite 400's shooting into to 45" Photogenic white (black backed) umbrellas placed approx' 10 feet either side the camera. I also have two Elinchrom 41" Varistar softbox umbrellas that I want to use to get some comparison shots.

I just shot a group of 20 at a wedding reception with a 60 in umbrella and a 580EX at 1/2 power. Where are you shooting? Indoors or outside? Time of day? If outdoors and later afternoon or early morning, put the flash behind you and dead center up high. You will not have to worry about shadows from cross lighting. Just balance the flash with the ambient and your good to go. Keep it simple!

Thanks for the reply's. It sounds like I'm not too far off at least conceptually.

The plan is to shoot in the salon, around dinner time so there will be a small amount of daylight through the picture window. The window faces east, so it will be very minimal and there are no other windows.

I'm thinking the 18 people will end up in rows by necessity, but we'll do our best to keep them chaotic and unrecognized. The idea is to portray this almost as if it were a party (which knowing this group it probably will be).

How big is the Salon? Are you going to balancing ambient with flash?
If you have a big area you can move the light back a little and feather it across your people in a manner that the people furthest from the light have more of it aimed on them. It will even things out.

With 18 people and one light, you're going to have to make sure you position them so that one person's shadow doesn't fall on someone else. That's something else to look for.

Quite honestly, if I were you I would make it simple until you have a chance to practice more. If you have a white ceiling or wall behind you just bounce off of it. If the back of the salon goes dark, bounce a light out of frame back there too. Unless you have gels to match flash color to ambient, it could get ugly. You'll have flash, evening daylight and most likely flourescent......maybe even some tungsten.

You could set the camera for f/8, shutter for 1/125 or 1/160, ISO at 100 then add the bounce flash in until it looks good. If you can't get enough power out of the flash, increase the ISO a little.

I like to bounce where the ceiling meets the wall, usually behind me and at a slight angle so the light has direction.

A soft box is the wrong way to light a large group. I would go with a few shoot through umbrellas. It's a pretty basic set up. 20 popel could be a bit tricky. watch out for them casting distracting shadows on each other.

say_cheese wrote in post #13089485
....my plan is to use two Elinchrom D-lite 400's shooting into to 45" Photogenic white (black backed) umbrellas placed approx' 10 feet either side the camera.

I caution against that arrangement. You'll very likely have some undesirable shadows on faces.

I've found that clustering my lights (each with a 60" umbrella) tightly a few feet above the camera works best for large groups.

There is one rule for lighting group shots: Keep it simple. I generally use one light, with a big umbrella, directly behind and above the camera. If you make it any more complicated, you'll regret it. Off-axis lights just create shadows where you don't want them.

Hair salons have lots of mirrors. Multiple mirrors = nightmare! All the more reason to keep the lighting simple. The mirrors will bounce it around in ways you can't predict. They also create reflections. Make sure to position yourself and your light so you aren't in the picture!

Good luck!

Great suggestions so far all, thanks!

The salon is pretty big, but it's got the work stations all over it. The space that is remaining is roughly 30' x 20'. But, I will be able to pull the camera back a bit between work stations. I just sent a text to the owner to see if they can be easily moved. I'm guessing they can.

Below is a shot I took a few weeks ago with the owner in the salon. I was testing out lighting the area with 3 flashes which I had each bouncing off of a peice of foam core. They were set up around knee height at either side around 45 degrees and one in the center I was hand holding. I took about 10 shots with her in various spots to see what the light would be like and it turned out quite harsh when she was at the extreme edges.

This should answer your questions about what the space is like. The only walls to bounce light off of would be the two side walls you can see. That may be a good solution if the picture on the left comes down which would also solve the light fall off as well since everyone would be standing in front of opposite wall. If the wall is to grey I could throw some paper over it. But, if the work stations don't easily move then we may be stuck shooting from the same perspective as this shot.

The lens in this shot is my 16-35 which I found to distorted near the extremes, so I was going to switch to my 24-105 and pull the camera back a little bit. Once I have the people there I figured I could figure out how wide a space they can occupy.

I can rent as many lights as necessary, though prefer to keep the costs down as much as necessary. The lighting in the shop are hologen spot lights which can be turned into or away from the shot.

Here's what I'd do:

One light with just a plain reflector down the right wall to cast a gradient and throw some light into the back. Use a gobo to block light from spilling on to your subjects.

Another light right behind the center mirror, bounce it off the back of that workstation to fill in the back area a little. If there's not a mirror there then tape pieces of computer paper together, hang it off the back of that workstation and bounce off it. You could bounce it off the floor, too.

Use an umbrella high up and behind the camera. Pop your shot (FROM A TRIPOD).
Once you're happy with your people, get them out of the way, pop another few shots while slowing the shutter on each one. This is a little insurance for you. If for some reason you can't get it lit the way you like with the lights, you can use some masking in post and mask things in that you want.

Another approach you could take would be to mount a hot shoe flash in one of those cheap, round paper japanese lanterns that you get at Ikea or Pier One. Put a Sto-Fen on it or cover the bottom hole with a piece of paper. Hang the flash in it so it fires straight down. Hang that entire contraption from the ceiling in the back to light that area up. Conceal the source with a workstation.

You could probably slow the shutter down a little in that shot and let those halgens burn in a little. Maybe even take the time to aim them at the wall art.

Consider getting the camera up high. I often use a 6' or 8' ladder to shoot groups from. This lets me get further back from the group so the perspective is more normal looking. As I mentioned before, I usually have my lights above the camera so my 13-foot light stands are near their height limit at times.

How about a large/long strip box (3' x 6') mounted on one strobe up high... Use a couple of your speedlites in the back for some fill light in the salon... Shoot a little higher like SkipD mentioned... And I do like the post production masking suggestion that bdillion mentioned... Just my two cents...

These are great suggestions, thanks! The owner told me the work stations don't move, so I'm really liking the ladder idea as I think the side shot won't work due to lack of width. I'm going to swing by on Friday to do some more recon and I'll make a final decision on the side shot.

^ Good talking with you this morning, Jon... Let me know how things go with the strobe purchase (and or rental)... Hehehehhehe..