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Thread started 19 Sep 2011 (Monday) 12:13
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DPP Limitations & PP In General

 
General_T
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Sep 19, 2011 12:13 |  #1

Hi,

First off - I am a total Newb - but trying to learn.

I know that this has been asked in numerous different ways, so please bear with me.
Mind you, I have read a number of the PP threads, but a lot of them started many years ago, so I was hoping for a more current slant on PP.

I have Photoshop CS5 / LR 3 & DPP.

Please confirm for me that you cannot do any image resizing in DPP? I can't seem to find a tab for it.

I am trying to get a grip on the "correct" order of workflow so:

If I start in DPP and do minor adjustments such as Brightness / Contract / Sharpening etc. Do I then convert and save it as a JPEG and then open it up as a JPEG in Photoshop? If so, then I work on it as a JPEG for more sharpening / HighPass filter etc or any special effects I may want to apply in Photoshop?

Or do I just open it up in Camera Raw and do the same minor things and then open it as a Raw file in Photoshop do more PP / resize / USM / sharpen / Highpass etc and finally save as a JPEG from there, or

Is there some point in the Camera Raw and Photoshop work that I should save and convert to JPEG and then reopen in Photoshop for "final" work.

I am confused on the correct sequence of when to convert to JPEG and keep working on the file in Photoshop.

Sorry for the convoluted post - but I think I have read too many of these kinda posts now and am looking for clarity / granularity or whatever the current buzz word is for simplicity.


Thanks a Heap :confused::confused:


Canon 5D Mk III | 24-105 F4 L IS USM | 100 F2.8 L Macro IS USM | 70-200 MK II F2.8 L IS USM|580 EX II

  
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mplezia
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Sep 19, 2011 12:36 |  #2

If you already have LR3, you can eliminate DPP from your workflow entirely; the overlap in what they do is huge, and IMO, LR3 is just better.

In fact, I would say 90% of your work should begin and end in LR3, with only occasional work in photoshop. LR3 is a pretty amazing tool. If you're not a pro, LR3 might be all you need for day to day PP (plus it's awesome for overall organisation).

My basic workflow:

  • Import to LR3
  • filter out bad shots and delete them
  • flag favorite shots for further work
  • basic edits for color, cropping, noise reduction, sharpening, etc.
  • some local editing if needed eyes, local exposure adjustment, spot removal, etc.
  • create collection or add shots to existing collection
  • export to jpg as needed for printing or sharing online

As a rank amateur, I don't have photoshop and will almost never work at the pixel level. If it's not easily fixable in LR I let it go. A pro who needs to do considerable PP to get to an appropriate or acceptable quality will probably work in photoshop on most pictures, but that's a different world from what I'm doing.

Canon 60D | Canon 500D | Canon 430EX II | Canon EF 24-105mm f/4 | Sigma 30mm f/1.4 DC HSM 'A' | Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II | Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

  
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General_T
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Sep 19, 2011 12:42 |  #3

Hi mplezia,

Thanks for the reply. I (like most I imagine) do not want to devote the time necessary to become a master of all these programs. From what I have read in a number of posts it seems the majority do like LR, so I will devote myself to this for my level of PP - which is minimal. But at least LR will allow me a bit more latitude in PP if I decide I need to do more - than DPP will allow.


Thanks Again


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tonylong
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Sep 19, 2011 12:48 |  #4

Hmm...I agree, you are confused:)!

As to resizing in DPP, well, that is done when you do a Convert and Save (or a Batch Process) -- you are going to convert to/create an image file and there your edits will be applied but it is in those dialogs that you specify resizing if needed/desired.

In that sense DPP is like other Raw processors, including Lightroom and Camera Raw -- you can Crop an image (or use the Trimming Tool in DPP), but what that does is merely store the pertinant data for the crop dimensions/placement in the metadata (it doesn't alter the Raw file). So, Convert and Save is the way to create an actual image with a new size. In Lightroom it is through Export, and in Camera Raw it is either using the Save function (which does a conversion to a tiff/psd/jpeg/whatever​) or you do the image resizing in Photoshop, either in the editor or using something like the Bridge Image Processor or the Export function. Camera Raw won't directly "resize" an image. Again, a crop is simply stored in the metadata.

As to going from DPP to photoshop, I don't see any good coming from doing a Convert and Save to a resized jpeg in DPP and then opening it in Photoshop, although there is a problem with doing a jpeg compression early in your processing. It's up to you whether to take that risk of loss of image data due to jpeg compression, just be aware of what you are doing.

The direct way of going from DPP to Photoshop is using the Tools/Transfer to Photoshop function. When you do that, the Raw data will be "rendered" into an RGB image that will open in Photoshop. But, the nifty thing is, an extra file will not be created. You can at any time save a file in Photoshop, and that would be good to save a "project file" (maybe a psd or a tiff) but also it could be convenient, if you wanted to do simple basic tasks, such as resizing, sharpening, Save, Save for Web, to be able to quickly do those things, have the image converted to a good output format (or let Save for Web do it automatically) and then close things. You'll be left with the Raw original, and then an output file (typically a jpeg that has the "final" processing/resizing done) and, if important, you will have that project file on hand but, as I pointed out, for quick basic stuff it is not so necessary and can clutter up your library...


Tony
Two Canon cameras (5DC, 30D), three Canon lenses (24-105, 100-400, 100mm macro)
Tony Long Photos on PBase (external link)
Wildlife project pics here (external link), Biking Photog shoots here (external link), "Suburbia" project here (external link)! Mount St. Helens, Mount Hood pics here (external link)

  
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tonylong
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Sep 19, 2011 12:49 |  #5

I see a couple of posts were made before I finished typing:)!

So, rather than me trying to reword things, just see this as a response to your OP!


Tony
Two Canon cameras (5DC, 30D), three Canon lenses (24-105, 100-400, 100mm macro)
Tony Long Photos on PBase (external link)
Wildlife project pics here (external link), Biking Photog shoots here (external link), "Suburbia" project here (external link)! Mount St. Helens, Mount Hood pics here (external link)

  
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mplezia
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Sep 19, 2011 12:55 |  #6

General_T wrote in post #13127814 (external link)
Hi mplezia,

Thanks for the reply. I (like most I imagine) do not want to devote the time necessary to become a master of all these programs. From what I have read in a number of posts it seems the majority do like LR, so I will devote myself to this for my level of PP - which is minimal. But at least LR will allow me a bit more latitude in PP if I decide I need to do more - than DPP will allow.

Thanks Again

I think if you take the time to learn LR3, you'll be amazed at what it can do. After using the 30 day trial, I immediately went ahead and bought a license. I was totally impressed.

Check here for some good discussion: https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=929170

Adobe TV has some great intro videos: http://tv.adobe.com/sh​ow/learn-lightroom-3/ (external link)

And, the Kelby book is a very good introduction as well: http://www.amazon.com …hers-Voices/dp/0321700910 (external link)


Canon 60D | Canon 500D | Canon 430EX II | Canon EF 24-105mm f/4 | Sigma 30mm f/1.4 DC HSM 'A' | Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II | Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

  
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General_T
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Sep 19, 2011 13:02 |  #7

Hi Tony Long (winded)

tonylong wrote in post #13127843 (external link)
Hmm...I agree, you are confused:)!

As to resizing in DPP, well, that is done when you do a Convert and Save (or a Batch Process) -- you are going to convert to/create an image file and there your edits will be applied but it is in those dialogs that you specify resizing if needed/desired.

Thanks for that - I never saw that box in the conert/save dialogue:)

The direct way of going from DPP to Photoshop is using the Tools/Transfer to Photoshop function. When you do that, the Raw data will be "rendered" into an RGB image that will open in Photoshop. But, the nifty thing is, an extra file will not be created. You can at any time save a file in Photoshop, and that would be good to save a "project file" (maybe a psd or a tiff) but also it could be convenient, if you wanted to do simple basic tasks, such as resizing, sharpening, Save, Save for Web, to be able to quickly do those things, have the image converted to a good output format (or let Save for Web do it automatically) and then close things. You'll be left with the Raw original, and then an output file (typically a jpeg that has the "final" processing/resizing done) and, if important, you will have that project file on hand but, as I pointed out, for quick basic stuff it is not so necessary and can clutter up your library...

Again, thanks for that tidbit. So, saving to JPEG will be the last step once all other edits are done. I am still going to start using LR exclusively - but will keep this info in mind.

Thanks Again


Cheers

Tony (not so long winded - because I know next to nothing:p)


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General_T
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Sep 19, 2011 13:10 |  #8

Hi Tony Long,

One more question - just to confirm. Whatever changes are made in DPP will be carried over into Photoshop with the Tools/Transfer to Photoshop selection in DPP? Thats kind of a cool feature if this is so!

Oops, never mind, I think I have the answer. It imports into CS5 as a Tiff which must mean it is importing the changes made in DPP.


Thanks


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General_T
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Sep 19, 2011 13:23 |  #9

Hi mplezia,

Thanks for the info. I'm in and will take advantage of the sites your links point to.

Cheers


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digital ­ paradise
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Sep 19, 2011 14:15 |  #10

I have DPP and CS5. Although I use DPP as my converter I do not like using it for resizing. I think CS5 does a far better job. The images look better IMO. It all has to do with complex math called algorithms. Each program calculates what info is discarded during downsizing differently.

Sounds like you amy be a LR3 convert. Just some additional info for you.


Image Editing OK

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MGH
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Sep 19, 2011 14:46 |  #11

Hi....I think this depends on what kind of photographer you are, if you want 200 keepers after a days shooting then Lightroom and what mplezia says is the way to go. But if like me you are very happy to get one or two shots worth editing then Photoshop is what you should use to get the very best you can from your best shots.
I have the same software as you do but since I got Photoshop CS5 I do every thing in that. I´m very much a beginer too and still learning but this is what I do, like I said I only edit my very very best, if I´m lucky 5 shots a month.
I go through my Raw files in DPP or bridge and save the best ones on two external hard drives. Then open the shot I want to edit with minibridge into ACR, get it looking good and do a bit of input sharpening.
Then open it in Photoshop and do what ever needs doing usualy lots of layers and masks and some selective sharpening. I save this as a layered PSD file on two external hard drives.
Then I flatern it resize it to 1280px out put sharpen change it to 8 bit and sRGB and save it as a JPEG to my C/drive.
When I want to print I go to the PSD file open it in PS, flatern it and may be do some out put sharpening and print from photoshop.
I end up with Raw files and layerd PSD files, that I can go back to if I want to change anything, on two EHDs. And only a small JPEG saved on my computer that I can put on The web.
Everyones work flow is diferent but I hope this helps...

Mark


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tonylong
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Sep 19, 2011 16:09 |  #12

General_T wrote in post #13127983 (external link)
Hi Tony Long,

One more question - just to confirm. Whatever changes are made in DPP will be carried over into Photoshop with the Tools/Transfer to Photoshop selection in DPP? Thats kind of a cool feature if this is so!

Oops, never mind, I think I have the answer. It imports into CS5 as a Tiff which must mean it is importing the changes made in DPP.

Thanks

Right -- it renders as a tiff in format with all your DPP edits applied, although it remains in memory until you decide to save it in Photoshop.

It is, like I say, a nifty feature as far as I'm concerned because I personally prefer not to have my library cluttered with tiff copies.

Camera Raw does the same type of thing when opening an image into the Photosop editor.

Lightroom by default saves either a tiff or a psd file into your LR library. A lot of times I delete them...


Tony
Two Canon cameras (5DC, 30D), three Canon lenses (24-105, 100-400, 100mm macro)
Tony Long Photos on PBase (external link)
Wildlife project pics here (external link), Biking Photog shoots here (external link), "Suburbia" project here (external link)! Mount St. Helens, Mount Hood pics here (external link)

  
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juggy4805
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Sep 20, 2011 13:37 |  #13

mplezia wrote in post #13127773 (external link)
If you already have LR3, you can eliminate DPP from your workflow entirely; the overlap in what they do is huge, and IMO, LR3 is just better.

In fact, I would say 90% of your work should begin and end in LR3, with only occasional work in photoshop. LR3 is a pretty amazing tool. If you're not a pro, LR3 might be all you need for day to day PP (plus it's awesome for overall organisation).

My basic workflow:
  • Import to LR3
  • filter out bad shots and delete them
  • flag favorite shots for further work
  • basic edits for color, cropping, noise reduction, sharpening, etc.
  • some local editing if needed eyes, local exposure adjustment, spot removal, etc.
  • create collection or add shots to existing collection
  • export to jpg as needed for printing or sharing online

As a rank amateur, I don't have photoshop and will almost never work at the pixel level. If it's not easily fixable in LR I let it go. A pro who needs to do considerable PP to get to an appropriate or acceptable quality will probably work in photoshop on most pictures, but that's a different world from what I'm doing.


Seems like a good workflow. My problem is I never delete bad pics. I just started using lightroom so I can probably use that to filter out pics better.


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digital ­ paradise
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Sep 20, 2011 14:59 |  #14

I really enjoy using DPP for that. Select All then Quick Edit. You go through and X the images you want to discard. Then Edit - Rating - Select rejected images only. Then File Delete. All those images are deleted.

I like using full screen option when culling. The images look so good in DPP compared to other software at this stage of the game. Love the detail. You can really pick out your sharpest images. Even if I did not use DPP for anything else I would use it for this first phase of my workflow.


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tonylong
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Sep 20, 2011 16:32 |  #15

digital paradise wrote in post #13134782 (external link)
I really enjoy using DPP for that. Select All then Quick Edit. You go through and X the images you want to discard. Then Edit - Rating - Select rejected images only. Then File Delete. All those images are deleted.

I like using full screen option when culling. The images look so good in DPP compared to other software at this stage of the game. Love the detail. You can really pick out your sharpest images. Even if I did not use DPP for anything else I would use it for this first phase of my workflow.

Just to be clear: when you say "Quick Edit" you do mean "Quick Check", right:)?


Tony
Two Canon cameras (5DC, 30D), three Canon lenses (24-105, 100-400, 100mm macro)
Tony Long Photos on PBase (external link)
Wildlife project pics here (external link), Biking Photog shoots here (external link), "Suburbia" project here (external link)! Mount St. Helens, Mount Hood pics here (external link)

  
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DPP Limitations & PP In General
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