60D date-time dedicated battery

John from PA wrote in post #16471990
Battery, maybe...however it could be a capacitor (supercap as apersson850 stated). Personally I would think if Canon utilized battery technology, they would make it user replaceable. This isn't a difficult task, as demonstrated in past models. The flash capacitor could even be utilized as the backup with some innovative circuitry design. If you look over the internals of the 60D, many photos available on the web, it is hard to see anything that resembles a battery. One does find numerous devices that are capacitors. In reality it doesn't matter much, through some method settings are retained is what matters, but if one goes and cracks open a 60D don't necessarily look for a battery.

Quit dwelling on whether or not there is a battery! Have you forgotten that you asked the questions:

"1. Are any user defined custom functions/settings also lost if the main battery is removed for an extended period of time?

2. How long are the settings retained if the main battery is removed? Are we talking about minutes, several hours, days, weeks, etc. If it takes 2.5 hours (from manual, page 24) to recharge an exhausted battery, and the battery is charged external to the camera, I assume the settings are retained for at least that long, but does anyone have a good feel for just how long these settings are retained?"

I responded that CFn setting and User settings and Firmware are all stored in EEPROMS which take electricity to change the stored values! No electricity, no change to settings!

Frodge wrote in post #16472192
I believe thy is one of those rechargeable cells. The question becomes how many recharges can it sustain? Also, why would canon move it to a place that is inaccessible to the user?

Because the replaceable button cells which had been used in the past are not inherently rechargeable ?!

Wilt wrote in post #16472244
Because the replaceable button cells which had been used in the past are not inherently rechargeable ?!

Would have been a really good design to have the rechargeable cell In a user friendly place. The difference between excellent designs, and so so design. Not that there is anything wrong with this setup, just makes more sense the other way.

Frodge wrote in post #16472192
I believe thy is one of those rechargeable cells. The question becomes how many recharges can it sustain? Also, why would canon move it to a place that is inaccessible to the user?

It is a rechargeable lithium battery, and yes, it will wear out one day. Wish I knew why they did that myself. On the 6D circuit board the battery is not soldered in, but is in a quick replace battery holder.. go figure. 3 hours to get to it, 5 seconds to replace it :>

Ron

Wonder if the 60d is the same? Citizen uses a similiar design on their Eco-drive series. The sun recharges the lithium cell. I have an early Eco drive that has to be at the very least 12-15 years old. It also depends on what this battery actually gives current to and how often.

Frodge wrote in post #16472273
Would have been a really good design to have the rechargeable cell In a user friendly place. The difference between excellent designs, and so so design. Not that there is anything wrong with this setup, just makes more sense the other way.

Yeah, just like smartphones with the battery sealed within the case, with no user access door...mine is like that. If it weren't for the fact that I am on a 'new (phone)every two (years)' plan with my mobile provider, I'd be more upset about the idea of the battery losing capacity and no way for me to replace it. It is nice that there are so many videos on the web on how to open up so many things, to replace batteries, etc.!

Wilt wrote in post #16472483
Yeah, just like smartphones with the battery sealed within the case, with no user access door...mine is like that. If it weren't for the fact that I am on a 'new (phone)every two (years)' plan with my mobile provider, I'd be more upset about the idea of the battery losing capacity and no way for me to replace it. It is nice that there are so many videos on the web on how to open up so many things, to replace batteries, etc.!

I would say a camera has more of a lifespan than the average phone. At least consumers expect it to. As for phones that are sealed, not really. If yor talking about an iPhone, there are two screws by he speakers, remove them and you lift the glass. There is one connector from the board to the battery. Real simple. Cameras, not so much.

Frodge wrote in post #16472295
Wonder if the 60d is the same? Citizen uses a similiar design on their Eco-drive series. The sun recharges the lithium cell. I have an early Eco drive that has to be at the very least 12-15 years old. It also depends on what this battery actually gives current to and how often.

It appears as if the 60D indeed has a battery mounted to a circuit board but it isn't clear if it is rechargeable. I've attached the applicable page from the parts manual. Note the item reading "WK1-5174-000 Battery, Lithium Metal."

John from PA wrote in post #16474496
It appears as if the 60D indeed has a battery mounted to a circuit board but it isn't clear if it is rechargeable. I've attached the applicable page from the parts manual. Note the item reading "WK1-5174-000 Battery, Lithium Metal."

Oh, great, designed-in need to send the camera in for service after about 3-4 years. It is well established that Lithium anodes in rechargeables deteriorate from the date the battery is manufactured! So the lifetime of rechargeable is predetermined by the actual manufacturing date.

However, not all lithium cells are 'rechargeables'. The long life lithium cells had been used with marine EPIRB (emergency position indicator radio beacon) transmitters, which need long lifetimes without any use, for a 10 year period before they need to be replaced.

Has anyone needed to send a 60D in for clock-battery replacement? I think the camera has been available for about four years. (I have had mine for about two.) If the batteries need replacement every 3-4 years, then some of them should be starting to fail.

The 60D manual says that if the main battery is removed or is completely discharged, then it may be necessary to reset the camera's clock. But it says nothing about how long it takes for this to happen. This also suggests that the clock battery recharges from the main battery.

It appears that the 70D has the same arrangement. Its manual has the same wording about the clock.

RodneyCyr wrote in post #16474653
Has anyone needed to send a 60D in for clock-battery replacement? I think the camera has been available for about four years. (I have had mine for about two.) If the batteries need replacement every 3-4 years, then some of them should be starting to fail.

The 60D manual says that if the main battery is removed or is completely discharged, then it may be necessary to reset the camera's clock. But it says nothing about how long it takes for this to happen. This also suggests that the clock battery recharges from the main battery.

It appears that the 70D has the same arrangement. Its manual has the same wording about the clock.

It could very well be that the battery for the clock only supplys current when there is no other battery in the camera, and so -- like electronic watches which run full time for 1-2 years on a single button -- the battery could last a very, very long time even without being 'rechargeable' since it would have a very low duty cycle (only when main battery is discharged).

The only difference between your camera and an older model with user-replaceable button, is that you would have to send the camera in, rather than merely running down to CVS or Walmart for a replacement button cell.

Definitive proof, there is a lithium battery in there.

stevecan wrote in post #16475180
Definitive proof, there is a lithium battery in there.

Re-read what I said in post 24...we still do not know if rechargeable lithium, or simply a one-time use lithium which has a very long shelf life.

If it's rechargeable, I would think it would last for a long time. Very long actually. Like I said, the citizen Eco drives, and Casio solars use rechargeable buttons. My citizen is between 12-15 years and the Casio about 10. Batteries never changed. Either way, retrograde by canon to not have it accessible.

I did a search and it looks like the 450d also used the WK1-5174-000 battery. Can someone confirm this with a parts catalogue? If it's true, how many people have had the 450d battery fail?