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Thread started 26 Sep 2011 (Monday) 19:48
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Which of my plans seems the most bang-for-buck?

 
Carlwashere
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Sep 26, 2011 19:48 |  #1

Well. I like this little hobby (more like habit!) we all call photography.
And it's been a while, can I think I'm set for an upgrade. What I mean by bang-for-buck, I mean which can give me the more new experiences and practice for the money?
My main aims and gigs include events (anything from sports to expos really.), family affairs, and the occasional portrait session. Throw in some nature and macro, and you've got me.
First up, plan 1. Cheapest, and the quickest I can go through with, but also one I have the least experience in.
~1. buy a flash. Most likely the 430 EX II. I have no (respectable) experience with flash photography. But I feel that I could gain in my skill by learning to do so. If you can tell, I decided to get several fast lenses before considering a flash. That's just me. And I am able to use no flash in a good amount of situations. I think I can gain a lot in the way of quality (goodbye ISO 1600!) and lighting practice. I think the AF-assist will work wonders also. Correct me if I'm wrong on that. This is a little over $200. A nice short-term type plan.

~2. Upgrade my body. With the CLP offering the 60D now, it's pretty tempting. From an improvement perspective, it doesn't offer me much... My little T2i is quite the soldier. If I do this AFTER plan 1, I can also experiment with off-camera flash. My soldier can't do that unfortunately. But then again I have no experience with flash, so nothing is missed I suppose... ~$640

~3. The sigma 70-200 OS. I had my heart set on the Canon 70-200 2.8 non-is for the longest while. I kind of changed my mind after turning off is on my nifty-250 though. A little more money, but it should be worth the shutter speeds possible amirite? I typically buy used, so I'm guessing ~$1200?

My plan right now is doing these three plans in order, as I am comfortably able to do so. The third is probably the most impulsive for me right now, but I'm watching how often I'm forced to pull out my 250 and how it's serving me. Considering what I have right now and the types of things I do, does this seem like a good road map? Keep in mind I want to keep my road map budget somewhat low. I'm still a young guy, about to leave for college. I can't buy a 5D MK II, 70-200L IS II, 24-70L, 580 EX II, and all the accessories that go with those. As much as I'd like too. We all know it adds up fast. That's not a new story here. So, what do you all think of my rough road map?


-Canon T2i- -Tammy 17-50 non-VC- -50 f1.4- -100 f2.8 macro- -85 f1.8-
-Pentax SP1000- -SMC Takumar 55 f2- -Takumar 28 f3.5- -Vivitar 135 f2.8-

  
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S.Horton
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Sep 26, 2011 19:53 |  #2

Sounds good, but you might want to add a used 1DMKIIN to the list of possibles.

I assume you are a HS senior, or in a part of the world where college starts in a month other an August, but good luck in advance.


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Carlwashere
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Sep 26, 2011 19:59 |  #3

Yup, HS senior, but it feel right around the corner. MUST use last available months of parent-supplemented income. :)
One question, Why a 1dMKIIN? It's got the drool worthy 1d in front certainly. After looking it up the 1d MKII prices aren't high at all. That's a surprise.


-Canon T2i- -Tammy 17-50 non-VC- -50 f1.4- -100 f2.8 macro- -85 f1.8-
-Pentax SP1000- -SMC Takumar 55 f2- -Takumar 28 f3.5- -Vivitar 135 f2.8-

  
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RPCrowe
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Sep 26, 2011 20:17 as a reply to  @ Carlwashere's post |  #4

HERE'S A THOUGHT...

I agree that purchasing a flash is a great step. However, I would take it one step further and purchase a diffuser/reflector which will greatly improve bounced flash. There are a multitude of diffuser/reflectors on the market and several which you can fabricate yourself.

I prefer the Joe Demb Flash Diffuser Pro (www.dembflashproducts.​com (external link)) which does a great job in allowing the light from the flash to look natural and not to have the deer-in-the-headlights look. The Flash Diffucer pro is not particularly expensive, is light in weight and easily transportable and is extremely versatile.

IMAGE: http://rpcrowe.smugmug.com/Other/Yangshuo-a/046-Tee-shirt-artists/858911199_3wdQp-L.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://rpcrowe.smugmug​.com …ZbFD#858911199_​3wdQp-A-LB  (external link)

IMAGE: http://rpcrowe.smugmug.com/Other/Yangshuo-a/063-silk-weaver/858914758_ZTMxQ-L.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://rpcrowe.smugmug​.com …ZbFD#858914758_​ZTMxQ-A-LB  (external link)

Adding a Stroboframe Camera Flip Bracket to your flash and Flash Diffuser Pro Combination will provide very nice lighting even for single light portraiture...

IMAGE: http://rpcrowe.smugmug.com/photos/1245211231_aEf5x-L.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://rpcrowe.smugmug​.com …bqh#1245211231_​aEf5x-A-LB  (external link)

IMAGE: http://rpcrowe.smugmug.com/photos/1245211250_kPtxT-L.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://rpcrowe.smugmug​.com …bqh#1245211250_​kPtxT-A-LB  (external link)

A used Stroboframe Camera Flip Bracket can often be found on eBay at a very low price:
http://www.ebay.com …ories&hash=item​519b0d5cd3 (external link)

I use a Canon Off-Camera Sync Cord to fire my flashbut a 60D or 7D can fire the flash wirelessly.

See my images at http://rpcrowe.smugmug​.com/ (external link)

  
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Carlwashere
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Sep 26, 2011 20:36 |  #5

Yeah, the "deer-in-headlights" look is the one I want to avoid the most. It's what's kept me from buying a flash until now really...but done right, you can't even tell as you've shown. Thanks for sharing.
The artwork on the t-shirts in the first shot is impressive. Where was it taken?


-Canon T2i- -Tammy 17-50 non-VC- -50 f1.4- -100 f2.8 macro- -85 f1.8-
-Pentax SP1000- -SMC Takumar 55 f2- -Takumar 28 f3.5- -Vivitar 135 f2.8-

  
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marcosv
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Sep 26, 2011 21:10 |  #6

RPCrowe wrote in post #13167615 (external link)
I agree that purchasing a flash is a great step. However, I would take it one step further and purchase a diffuser/reflector which will greatly improve bounced flash. There are a multitude of diffuser/reflectors on the market and several which you can fabricate yourself.

I prefer the Joe Demb Flash Diffuser Pro (www.dembflashproducts.​com (external link)) which does a great job in allowing the light from the flash to look natural and not to have the deer-in-the-headlights look. The Flash Diffucer pro is not particularly expensive, is light in weight and easily transportable and is extremely versatile.

Here's another plug for the Demb Flash Diffuser. I love it. It really is easy to play with and figure out on your own what works.

I also like the gel holder that you can buy for it.

I also love Demb's flash bracket. It's really light at 6 oz and does a good job. It's also fairly small.


EOS-M | 40D | 5DII | 5DIII | EF-M 22 | EF-M 18-55 | 10-22 | 17-55 | 17-40L | 24-70L mk II | 24-105L | 70-200/2.8L IS mk II| 35L | 85L II |35/2 | 40/2.8 pancake | 50/1.8 | 50/1.4 | 100/2 | Rokinon 14/2.8 | 90 EX | 270 EX II | 580 EXII | 600 EX-RT

  
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marcosv
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Sep 26, 2011 21:43 |  #7

Carlwashere wrote in post #13167485 (external link)
That's not a new story here. So, what do you all think of my rough road map?

I like your idea of buying a flash first. As others have mentioned, do allocate money for flash modifiers. My two favorites: omnibounce ($20) and the Demb Flip-It with gel holder. Buy the omnibounce first.

Here's a link to some flash tips. Love the guy's books on flash photography. His favorite modifier is a black piece of foam strapped to the flash using a hair band.
http://neilvn.com …1/the-black-foamie-thing/ (external link)

I plan on playing with the black foamie thing, but, I'm comfortable with the Demb Flip-It for now.

I personally don't recommend buying a new body until your skills improve to the point you can really use a new body's features. For me, that would be when you will benefit from better controls to more quickly adjust things such as EC and shutter/aperture or shutter and aperture. The longer you can hold out, the better. Note: I'm not implying that you will be saving money by holding off on a new body; I'm implying you will be spending money on better glass rather than a new body that will be ready for replacement in two to three years. :)

A better place to spend money: post processing. If you haven't done so already, buy decent post processing software such as Lightroom and Photoshop CS5. I wouldn't bother with Adobe Photoshop Elements and go right to Lightroom. It can do so much that I'd buy it as soon as it is on sale for $130 or so again. Also consider spending money on printing.

After all, how can you know if your gear is good enough if you can't judge your work based on the best you can do in post processing? Lens correction algorithms are really nice and can help you get the most of cheap glass.


EOS-M | 40D | 5DII | 5DIII | EF-M 22 | EF-M 18-55 | 10-22 | 17-55 | 17-40L | 24-70L mk II | 24-105L | 70-200/2.8L IS mk II| 35L | 85L II |35/2 | 40/2.8 pancake | 50/1.8 | 50/1.4 | 100/2 | Rokinon 14/2.8 | 90 EX | 270 EX II | 580 EXII | 600 EX-RT

  
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teraflop
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Sep 27, 2011 00:06 as a reply to  @ marcosv's post |  #8


  1. Buy a flash! Buy the best one you can get and buy a canon speedlite! Learn to use it, learn to use it in Av/Tv-Mode. Learn to use the fillflash and thats not dumb to use your flash for portrait photography even outdoors when sun is shining...
  2. Buy a better lens - buy the Tele!
  3. At last buy a new body - your T2i is still a new camera. Don't think you'll win more image quality with a new body - you'll win in handling, haptics and ergonomics.


Cheers
flop



  
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mrfourcows
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Sep 27, 2011 00:26 as a reply to  @ teraflop's post |  #9

glass first.


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DreDaze
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Sep 27, 2011 01:28 |  #10

i'd switch 2/3...you'll notice a difference with the lens more so than the body...


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ceriltheblade
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Sep 27, 2011 01:33 |  #11

actually, i think your plan is well thought out and very mature.
agree with everyone else about the flash modifiers - both on camera as well as making the flash off camera. It opens a whole new world of lighting...and that in and of itself will take you time before you feel that you mastered it (or at least that you feel that you have a handle on it)
I also think you can forego the body for the meanwhile - if your main goal is to change IQ in some way. If, on the other hand, is to get better ergonomics, faster frame rate, etc.... then i understand...but I would still put the glass first.
70-200 OS is really a nice piece of glass (i don't own it - yet - though I have been considering it vs the canon versions myself) and second in IQ basically to the mark II. That's saying something. but the question in regards to this map is the time line.....If we are speaking about 1 year plus - maybe you will change your mind....

are you planning on pursuing photography post graduation as a profession or in college/university?
good luck!


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50 1.8 II, MP-E65, 85 II, 100 IS
8-15 FE, 10-22, 16-35 IS, 24-105, 70-200 f4IS, 100-400 ii, tamron 28-75 2.8
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Carlwashere
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Sep 27, 2011 19:14 |  #12

Thanks everyone, I don't really plan on making my photography a profession, but I do plan on making it one of the things that define me. If that makes sense. I.E. If I have kids, they will have a ridiculously well-documented childhood.
The main thing holding me from going for broke with the 70-200 is that I'm not sure how much use it'd get. I mean think of it this way, I could buy a brand new motorcycle if I wanted. Top of the line. However, I don't drive motorcycles. While it'd be the best of it's kind, it'd sit in the garage, you know? That is why I placed it at 3 rather than 1.
I was debating the order of 2 and 3 myself...
As for post, I own photoshop because I used to do a lot of graphic design. However, I don't own a printer. Yet another thing to consider haha.
And there is a WORLD of flash accessories I didn't know about. I knew about soft boxes and reflectors. That's about it.
Thanks again!


-Canon T2i- -Tammy 17-50 non-VC- -50 f1.4- -100 f2.8 macro- -85 f1.8-
-Pentax SP1000- -SMC Takumar 55 f2- -Takumar 28 f3.5- -Vivitar 135 f2.8-

  
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imsellingmyfoot
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Sep 27, 2011 19:24 |  #13

marcosv wrote in post #13168152 (external link)
A better place to spend money: post processing. If you haven't done so already, buy decent post processing software such as Lightroom and Photoshop CS5. I wouldn't bother with Adobe Photoshop Elements and go right to Lightroom. It can do so much that I'd buy it as soon as it is on sale for $130 or so again. Also consider spending money on printing.

College student = student discount. Go get it for $89. That's the best $89 I ever spent. I personally have found Elements to be useful too, although I don't do much pixel editing, Lightroom does everything I need done. But to each his own.


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minitrucker
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Sep 27, 2011 22:51 as a reply to  @ imsellingmyfoot's post |  #14

http://www.amazon.com …TF8&qid=1317181​438&sr=8-4 (external link)

cheap way of getting your flash off the camera. I have the model for the 1d and I havent had any complaints so far. This may help sate your appetite for the new body. I'm personally on the page with everybody saying no need for the body upgrade. And maybe instead of lenses you grabbed a good flash meter to help master flash photography;) At least if you get addicted, speedlite accesories are somewhat cheaper than lens and body upgrades:p


Photography on my budget? WHAT WAS I THINKIN?!:confused:

  
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amfoto1
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Sep 27, 2011 23:39 |  #15

minitrucker wrote in post #13174224 (external link)
http://www.amazon.com …TF8&qid=1317181​438&sr=8-4 (external link)

cheap way of getting your flash off the camera.

I was going to suggest the Canon ST-E2 to use with a flash or two (or more). It's essentially the same thing as at this link, though I think the third party model is less expensive and has a bit more reach (but I've heard might be a wee bit more prone to overheating with heavy use).

The problem with all Canon off-camera flash is that it's controlled by IR (or visible flashes in the case of cameras with built-in wireless), so it's strictly line-of-sight. That means you can't hide the flashes as effectively and are more limited on placement. A radio triggered setup is a lot more flexible and something you might want to start looking into, since you mention portraits in particular.

For use on a flash bracket and with an off camera shoe cord, Canon flash are hard to beat (with or without diffuser or bouncing). Current 580EX and 430EX are great, but so are some earlier models if you would consider buying used... 420EX and 550EX are certainly worth considering.

I agree too, glass before cameras. You can't get any image quality or high ISO performance "upgrading" to 60D or any other crop sensor Canon body. So stick with what you've got for now and put money into lenses instead. Definitely try to get IS or OS or VC on longer lenses. It just makes it so much more versatile. F2.8 lens will seem big and unwieldy on your Rebel, so you might want to add a battery grip to the camera to help it balance better. But a 70-200/2.8 is a real workhorse of a lens for a lot of situations... you mentioned sports in particular. For a lot of reasons, my 70-200 is probably the single most used lens in my Canon kit (out of 18 lenses). I bet a lot of people find the same with theirs and I know there are 70-200s in many pro photogs camera bags. If you need more reach, you might get a 1.4X teleconverter. There are several good ones that work pretty darned well on 70-200s. If the size and price of an f2.8 is more than you want to deal with, you have a couple fast primes so might be able to get by with an f4 version of the zoom... of course that limits your selection to the Canon, but they are excellent lenses so that's certainly not a bad thing.

As to Lightroom 3.... definitely get it. Very useful for organizing and first pass image editing and can handle large numbers of images efficiently. There are a number of things it can handle quite well... cropping, retouching, tweaking exposure/color/saturat​ion/etc. One thing it can't do, that Elements or Photoshop can, is layers. I use those a lot finishing images, so really wouldn't want to be without the complementary softwares (I'm using CS5, to be specific). Yes, there are some great deals out there for students on Adobe softwares. Take advantage of them, if you can.


Alan Myers (external link) "Walk softly and carry a big lens."
5DII, 7DII, 7D, M5 & others. 10-22mm, Meike 12/2.8,Tokina 12-24/4, 20/2.8, EF-M 22/2, TS 24/3.5L, 24-70/2.8L, 28/1.8, 28-135 IS (x2), TS 45/2.8, 50/1.4, Sigma 56/1.4, Tamron 60/2.0, 70-200/4L IS, 70-200/2.8 IS, 85/1.8, Tamron 90/2.5, 100/2.8 USM, 100-400L II, 135/2L, 180/3.5L, 300/4L IS, 300/2.8L IS, 500/4L IS, EF 1.4X II, EF 2X II. Flashes, strobes & various access. - FLICKR (external link)

  
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Which of my plans seems the most bang-for-buck?
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