Sony's A77 Is The New King of APS-C DSLRs

I think it becomes less relevant to compare 100% crops when the resolutions are quite different. We are looking at 50% closer view on the Sony than we are on the Nikon. Of course the flaws are more obvious. This is the same logic that made people think the 50D was worse than the 40D when it first came out.

namtot wrote in post #13178050
i could care less about the A77 and NEX-7 simply because thats way to many pixels for a sensor that size. i want clean images over massive pictures, if i wanted that many pixels id buy a 5dmkii, if i wanted high fps id buy a 7d, this camera is just trying to do to much.

if they would have taken the sensor from the nex-5n and put it in a pro mirrorless body, id be on that thing faster then flies on poop.

This is a sentiment shared by lots of people out there. On paper (and in terms of looks/ergonomics) the NEX-7 is by far the most appealing ILC of the lot, but cramming in all of those megapixels was a big self-shot in the foot. If the Samsung NX20 is rangefinder-styled and less than $1k, there will be very little reason to choose the Sony over it.

tkbslc wrote in post #13178134
I think it becomes less relevant to compare 100% crops when the resolutions are quite different. We are looking at 50% closer view on the Sony than we are on the Nikon. Of course the flaws are more obvious. This is the same logic that made people think the 50D was worse than the 40D when it first came out.

While I do agree with this to a certain extent... it has always been my opinion that noise at the pixel level have never really been "worse" than previous generation, even @ 100%.

When I compared my old 40D to the 7D, my conclusion was that at 100% pixel peeping, the quality of noise is practically the same. But of course, when viewing the entire photo at identical viewing sizes, the advantage then goes to the 7D.

On dpreview's comparisons, it seems that 100% pixel peeping levels, the Sony is actually going backwards.

It now makes me curious as to what Nikon engineers can do with the same sensor in their next release.

Due to past experience I wouldn't have any sony equipment except to hang from my tripod hook to stabilize it.

bjyoder wrote in post #13178100
And that's about all Sony has, is a good, headline-grabbing spec sheet. It's kinda like the Nikon D7000 vs. Canon 60D: the Nikon definitely grabs the headlines, but I've seen a number of reviews claiming that, in practice, the Canon is the better camera (with IQ being generally equivilent, probably leaning to the Nikon).

I'm not sure I understand or even agree with this. The D7000 is generally agreed as being the best current APS-C out there, and has a significantly better sensor and AF system than the 60D, not to mention full weathersealing and an 100% viewfinder. It's a 7D competitor and it wins in a lot of ways (dual card slots, IQ, AF performance, price).

I'm not sure what this means. I'm pretty sure I can still change my aperture.

In what ways? The A77 has dual dials, manual mode, a top LCD screen. I don't see how it would appeal to non photographers over techies. Sure Sony has a lot of 'kid friendly' features like twilight mode, HDR, panorama, and smart autos, but so does my 60D.

Sony has spent more than Nikon, Canon, and Pentax combined on camera R&D in the last fiscal year. IBIS, SLT tech, CMOS sensor technology and fab processes, EVF tech, basically shutter lag free electronic capture, the most FPS of any DSLR. And it's not like money spent on one sector doesn't get handed down. Canon uses the same 2008 18MP sensor all the way from the 7D down to the T2i. I think it only looks like Sony is the "king" because they've released first. Canon and Nikon are overdue for announcements.

Realistically though I can't see Sony being taken seriously until they can flip the mirror up, even at reduced FPS or single shot. For astro photography, studio work, landscapes, and quite a few other applications (MF lenses, video where you MF anyway) the mirror is only impairing performance. Definitely the biggest issue with Sony right now.

Sp1207 wrote in post #13178702
I'm not sure I understand or even agree with this. The D7000 is generally agreed as being the best current APS-C out there, and has a significantly better sensor and AF system than the 60D, not to mention full weathersealing and an 100% viewfinder. It's a 7D competitor and it wins in a lot of ways (dual card slots, IQ, AF performance, price).

Have you not seen the scads of horror stories about the D7000's AF troubles?

Sp1207 wrote in post #13178702
...AF performance[...].

definitely not

cptrios wrote in post #13178872
Have you not seen the scads of horror stories about the D7000's AF troubles?

https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1078582

Yeah. Having used both the 7D and D7K, the D7K was no doubt the stronger camera in terms of AF. Cross type means very little, since my 9 cross point 1DsII outperforms both.

Anyhow, even if you disagree with that specific comment, I can't see anything else in my post as being debatable.

Sp1207 wrote in post #13179125
https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1078582

Yeah. Having used both the 7D and D7K, the D7K was no doubt the stronger camera in terms of AF. Cross type means very little, since my 9 cross point 1DsII outperforms both.

Anyhow, even if you disagree with that specific comment, I can't see anything else in my post as being debatable.

Didn't say it was debatable - much of it is correct. It's just that the D7K really does seem to have turned out to be a case of "but this looked so good on paper." Still a good camera, but not the perfect dream-machine it seemed to be when it was announced.

tkbslc wrote in post #13171576
I hope Sony does succeed in their mission to be a 3rd major player. The competition would be beneficial to those of us in the other camps. Just having Canon and Nikon play see-saw gets a bit stale and slows innovation.

+1 Thats how i felt

I WANT the A77 to kick Nikon and Canon in the arse and make them come out with something better and more innovative...I dont want some minor software tweak and a sticker that says "Mark II" slapped on the 7D...I want a GOOD reason to dump $1800 on a new camera Or I very well might switch systems if someone offers something superior for my needs (I love my 7D, But I do not like a lot of things about it, Its not my favorite camera in the world)

Theres some things I love about the A77, The Color Reproduction and low ISO performance is great from everything I've heard, and the rear screen and EVF viewfinder i would find immensely useful for a lot of my shooting where im working at weird odd angles and using manual focus for macro work...

Lens wise, the Sony 70-400 is supposed to be about the best wildlife telezoom out there to my knowledge and the Zeiss 135 f/1.8 makes my mouth water....Sony also has a neato flash unit with a VERY cool tilty head (Why is sony the only one that offers that? it eliminates the need for a strobeframe!) Beyond that...Their macros are supposed to be pretty good from what I understand, but they dont have a 180-200mm class macro which is what id love...I do like having stabilization on every lens however..and i remember Sony's ergonomics being very nice as well

But it does seem to fall apart at 3200+ from the thing someone posted above...Hmn...Do I shoot 3200 a lot? Not really..but i do enjoy having it there you know? I dont hesitate to use it on my 7D..I would hesitate to use it on the A77...

I do wish i could get an A77 in my hands right now and go out shooting with her...I bet you I could show what this camera is capable of

cptrios wrote in post #13179340
Didn't say it was debatable - much of it is correct. It's just that the D7K really does seem to have turned out to be a case of "but this looked so good on paper." Still a good camera, but not the perfect dream-machine it seemed to be when it was announced.

Expectations vs Reality

The D7K seemed like a "Pocket Battleship" against the 7D and D300s, But in reality, it will disappoint if you put it up with those cameras...

Its just not built as well as the upper end ones, and its just subtle little things that separate the D7K from the 7D or D300s...

its a great Camera, but its just not as impressive in reality, I was actually REALLY disappointed when i got the first chance to use one...

On the other hand, I was HIGHLY impressed by the 60D because it exceeded what I expected from it on paper...Good little camera it is...

Sp1207 wrote in post #13178702
I'm not sure I understand or even agree with this. The D7000 is generally agreed as being the best current APS-C out there, and has a significantly better sensor and AF system than the 60D, not to mention full weathersealing and an 100% viewfinder. It's a 7D competitor and it wins in a lot of ways (dual card slots, IQ, AF performance, price).

The sensor and AF are better than the 60D IMHO, with 39 points vs the antique 9-point AF on the 60D, the viewfinder is nice, as for weathersealing, i wouldnt trust the D7000, and i dont think its "fully" weathersealed.... The dual card slots are nice, but they're SD cards...Which i guess is a 50/50 (For someone upgrading, SD slots are nice, But for me, I have a ton of CF cards, and while SD cards are cheap i also wouldnt really want to replace them, i like my CF cards thank you very much..)

The price is good though...

The A77 is also fully weathersealed, and the rear LCD is VERY useful for many kinds of photography, The A77 is a very serious camera, the first one that Sony has released in a while..Some of the things are obviously meant to appeal to a consumer, but others are definitely useful handy features..

+1, Sony looks king because its fighting cameras that have been out for AGES at this point, the 7D is 3 years old, and the D300s is just as old, the D300s might even qualify as older given its still using the same sensor from the D300....

For me to take Sony seriously I need to see some new Alpha lenses, Not just one at a time but updates to a lot of the old legacy glass, Id like to see an AF Makro-Planar 100 f/2 for instance or something...A lot of their cool glass is cool, but they also have more methusalems in their lineup than Canon or Nikon i think...or just simply have no entry....

KenjiS wrote in post #13179882
The A77 is also fully weathersealed, and the rear LCD is VERY useful for many kinds of photography, The A77 is a very serious camera, the first one that Sony has released in a while..Some of the things are obviously meant to appeal to a consumer, but others are definitely useful handy features..

.

Also has a magnesium body.

NickR wrote in post #13180945
Also has a magnesium body.

That too....

The A77 also has phase detect AF for video, Something NONE of the competition has...

Looks interesting. I know very little about the Sony gear although my second shooter used to run Sony Alpha equipment and I was less than impressed with the results. Most images seemed soft and colors where really flat and lifeless. Half being user error and the glass but after selling him my 7D his work has come on leaps and bounds.