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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 10 Oct 2011 (Monday) 02:01
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Phottix Odin, Wireless E-TTL that works!!!!

 
Subtas
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Mar 06, 2012 13:16 |  #421

sempaidavid wrote in post #14035103 (external link)
Ok, so if I am using A, B, and C groups and have the ratio set to A:B, how do I adjust the power that C will contribute. Or is it locked into the came ratio as the B group. I know this is all based on the Canon omplimentation, but I rarely used the canon optical system. Thanks for any info that anyone can provide.

For that you just can't use the ratio mode. You have to control each channel independently.



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Yohan ­ Pamudji
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Mar 06, 2012 13:33 |  #422

sempaidavid wrote in post #14035103 (external link)
Ok, so if I am using A, B, and C groups and have the ratio set to A:B, how do I adjust the power that C will contribute. Or is it locked into the came ratio as the B group. I know this is all based on the Canon omplimentation, but I rarely used the canon optical system. Thanks for any info that anyone can provide.

Subtas wrote in post #14036293 (external link)
For that you just can't use the ratio mode. You have to control each channel independently.

I've never used more then 2 channels with Canon's wireless system so I don't know how the C group is controlled. I just played around a bit on my 580EX and saw that you could set the ratio of A:B, but when it got to "ratio" of C it just gave me the option to increase/decrease flash output in number of stops. I assume that's relative to A even though it's not stated on the LCD?

So on the Odin if one wants to do 3 groups it's got to be manual for each group instead of ratios? So I'd do something like 0 FEC for A, -1 FEC for B, and -2 FEC for C? That's a bit more cumbersome than setting ratios for all 3 once and just adjusting FEC once for the whole flash setup in one setting as needed. What if the ratios are right but 0 FEC is too low for A? Then I'd have to increase FEC for all 3 channels separately. Workable, but cumbersome.




  
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Subtas
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Mar 06, 2012 14:55 |  #423

Yohan Pamudji wrote in post #14036426 (external link)
So on the Odin if one wants to do 3 groups it's got to be manual for each group instead of ratios?

Yes.


Yohan Pamudji wrote in post #14036426 (external link)
So I'd do something like 0 FEC for A, -1 FEC for B, and -2 FEC for C? That's a bit more cumbersome than setting ratios for all 3 once and just adjusting FEC once for the whole flash setup in one setting as needed. What if the ratios are right but 0 FEC is too low for A? Then I'd have to increase FEC for all 3 channels separately. Workable, but cumbersome.

If FEC it's too low for A you just have to adjust channel A. The others channels are independent.

There are 2 modes in the ODin: the ratio mode and "independent" mode where you control each channel (A,B, C) the way you want (ETTL or manual).

If you use the ratio mode you can set the overal FEC and from there control only the ratio between channels.



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Yohan ­ Pamudji
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Mar 06, 2012 15:51 |  #424

Subtas wrote in post #14036981 (external link)
Yes.




If FEC it's too low for A you just have to adjust channel A. The others channels are independent.

There are 2 modes in the ODin: the ratio mode and "independent" mode where you control each channel (A,B, C) the way you want (ETTL or manual).

If you use the ratio mode you can set the overal FEC and from there control only the ratio between channels.

Thanks for the info. What I meant with my example scenario was that with the Phottix Odin if you know you want a 1:2:4 ratio you would set A to 0, B to -1, and C to -2 due to lack of support for 3 groups. But then if you discovered that A at 0 is too low then you'd have to adjust all 3 separately, e.g. A to 1, B to 0, and C to -1. With Canon's native wireless E-TTL you'd set the ratio, do a test shot, and if the exposure is too low then add +1 FEC which affects the entire flash setup instead of having to add +1 to every flash group separately. Does that make sense?




  
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Subtas
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Mar 06, 2012 16:11 |  #425

Yohan Pamudji wrote in post #14037352 (external link)
Thanks for the info. What I meant with my example scenario was that with the Phottix Odin if you know you want a 1:2:4 ratio you would set A to 0, B to -1, and C to -2 due to lack of support for 3 groups. But then if you discovered that A at 0 is too low then you'd have to adjust all 3 separately, e.g. A to 1, B to 0, and C to -1. With Canon's native wireless E-TTL you'd set the ratio, do a test shot, and if the exposure is too low then add +1 FEC which affects the entire flash setup instead of having to add +1 to every flash group separately. Does that make sense?

Yes, it makes sense. Sorry but in the previous post it sounded to me that you had a doubt.

But I think that in Canon's way ,all you can do it's the same the Odin does: adjust A:B ratio and overall FEC. Then you have a FEC option to group C.
I think it's not possible to control the 3 groups (at a time) in ETTL mode. Well, at least I couldn't.



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Yohan ­ Pamudji
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Mar 06, 2012 16:30 |  #426

Subtas wrote in post #14037499 (external link)
Yes, it makes sense. Sorry but in the previous post it sounded to me that you had a doubt.

But I think that in Canon's way ,all you can do it's the same the Odin does: adjust A:B ratio and overall FEC. Then you have a FEC option to group C.
I think it's not possible to control the 3 groups (at a time) in ETTL mode. Well, at least I couldn't.

You're probably right there. Like I said I've only ever done A:B and not C. 2 groups is about as many as I can handle for the type of stuff I do--not enough time or manpower to setup 3 :) Maybe somebody with experience using 3 groups on Canon's system can comment further.




  
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DHPHOTO66
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Mar 06, 2012 17:51 as a reply to  @ Yohan Pamudji's post |  #427

Is it possible to set the three groups to TTL and adjust them individually?


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Subtas
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Mar 06, 2012 18:04 |  #428

DHPHOTO66 wrote in post #14038035 (external link)
Is it possible to set the three groups to TTL and adjust them individually?

Yes. :)



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sempaidavid
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Mar 06, 2012 18:19 |  #429

So i am still a bit unclear. Lets say that I have a 1:3 ratio using the A:B ratio feature. Is the C equal to the output of the A or the B channel?


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elv
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Mar 06, 2012 18:50 as a reply to  @ sempaidavid's post |  #430

You can mix ETTL and Manual in any group as well as ETTL ratios in any groups.

I would forget the old Canon style ratio screen altogether! (even Canon has moved on with the ST-E3) The Nikon style interface where you can adjust each group FEC (or manual) all displayed at the same time is the the whole point of the Odin.

To set a ratio all you do is set the groups to ETTL and adjust the FEC up and down for each group.

You can then set group C to a ration that way as well, or a manual power level (image left). (Image right is the old ration screen - kill it! :) )

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Adjusting FEC on the camera then adjusts all ETTL groups up an down globally.

Adjusting FEC set for more than one group on the TCU is how you create the ratio. Having a fill light one stop down from the main light for example (image left above) makes a lot more sense than a meaningless ratio on the old system.

And you can quickly set any group to manual then if needed too, thats why the Odin is so much better than the current Canon system. You need the 5DIII and ST-E3/600EX to do that otherwise (or PW TT5/AC3).

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elv
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Mar 06, 2012 18:55 |  #431

sempaidavid wrote in post #14038159 (external link)
So i am still a bit unclear. Lets say that I have a 1:3 ratio using the A:B ratio feature. Is the C equal to the output of the A or the B channel?

There is no group C using the A:B ration feature (kill it ;-)a )

You need to set the ratios with FEC as I did above.


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virsago_mk2
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Mar 06, 2012 19:08 |  #432

Can't wait to try 5D3 with Odin. I wonder if it will work with current firmware.


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elv
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Mar 06, 2012 19:09 |  #433

Yohan Pamudji wrote in post #14036426 (external link)
So on the Odin if one wants to do 3 groups it's got to be manual for each group instead of ratios? So I'd do something like 0 FEC for A, -1 FEC for B, and -2 FEC for C? That's a bit more cumbersome than setting ratios for all 3 once and just adjusting FEC once for the whole flash setup in one setting as needed. What if the ratios are right but 0 FEC is too low for A? Then I'd have to increase FEC for all 3 channels separately. Workable, but cumbersome.

- No for 3 groups it doesn't have to be manual instead of ratios. It can be a 3 way ratio or manual mixed in on any group.

- You can adjust FEC once for the whole flash set up, you just do it with the cameras FEC adjustment.

- If the ratios are right, but 0 FEC is too low for A, then B has to be too low as well, because you just said the ratio is right :-). All you do is bump them all up globally vial the camera FEC.

Adjust each group via the Odin FEC, and globally via the camera FEC.

The Odin and camera FEC add on to each other so you have 5 or 6 stops total of FEC adjustment!


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DHPHOTO66
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Mar 06, 2012 19:10 |  #434

elv wrote in post #14038358 (external link)
There is no group C using the A:B ration feature (kill it ;-)a )

You need to set the ratios with FEC as I did above.

This is what I first thought....


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Yohan ­ Pamudji
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Mar 06, 2012 19:44 |  #435

elv wrote in post #14038459 (external link)
- No for 3 groups it doesn't have to be manual instead of ratios. It can be a 3 way ratio or manual mixed in on any group.

- You can adjust FEC once for the whole flash set up, you just do it with the cameras FEC adjustment.

- If the ratios are right, but 0 FEC is too low for A, then B has to be too low as well, because you just said the ratio is right :-). All you do is bump them all up globally vial the camera FEC.

Adjust each group via the Odin FEC, and globally via the camera FEC.

The Odin and camera FEC add on to each other so you have 5 or 6 stops total of FEC adjustment!

Yes!!! That's fantastic! Thanks for the info. Great to know that you can adjust FEC once to affect the entire setup. Not that the way I thought it worked would be completely crap, but this way is definitely faster and easier. Awesome... getting closer to picking up a set of these to mess with now.




  
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Phottix Odin, Wireless E-TTL that works!!!!
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