580 multi flash settings

Hi, could anyone please help. I am wanting to shoot motosport MX; multi flash using Canon Mk3 with 580ex speedlite. I would most appreciate some example settings. I plan to use a 70 200 f2.8 IS lens. I can only seem to get one flash from a 3 to 4 frames even using an external power pack. The Mk3 is set to 8fps.

Regards

Roy.

Stroboscopic and Consecutive shots only work at low power (1/4 or less).

http://eosdoc.com/manu​als/?q=580EX*

at 8fps (8 Hz) you can only get 2-3 shots at 1/4...

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Thank you for replying, I had already seen the attached page in my manual, too be honest I do not really follow this. I want to shoot with a shutter speed high enough to stop an on-coming machine. I usually shoot in Tv or Manual 800 to 1000 f2.8 iso is adjusted accordingly. I would shoot at 500 or less for a crossing shot. I appreciate your reply, many thanks.

Roy.

g4whq wrote in post #13278988
I do not really follow this. I want to shoot with a shutter speed high enough to stop an on-coming machine. I usually shoot in Tv or Manual 800 to 1000 f2.8 iso is adjusted accordingly.

If you're shooting at SS=1/800" or 1/1000" (anything above 1/320" with the 1D3) then your flash is going to kick into High Speed Sync, which decreases the flash power and range even more.

For the shots that you took where the flash did fire, was the lighting adequate?

If you don't have enough power to overpower ambient by 2 or 3 stops so the flash freezes motion instead of shutter speed, then high-ISO and HSS probably is your best bet.

But if you're more than about 10 meters from your subject, then HSS is just going to give a touch of fill light. Probably about the same as you'd see by reducing flash power manually down to 1/4. Except without the limitations of xsync.

If you could post a couple of examples (with EXIF) of what you're getting with and without flash, that would really help.

Many thanks again, I will get back to you with a sample you requested. Yes the exposure was ok but the flash only fired once as I remember, I gave up after that not tested since. When I find the image in question I will post your my Zenfolio page you can see the exif info

A flash is like a bucket of water...the bucket only holds a certain quantity of water, and if you throw all the water on someone, you have to WAIT long enough for a hose to refill the bucket, before you can throw a full bucket of water a second time.

In that analogy...

• water = electrical charge
  
• bucket = capacitor
  
• hose = AA batteries
  

clarence wrote in post #13279082
If you're shooting at SS=1/800" or 1/1000" (anything above 1/320" with the 1D3) then your flash is going to kick into High Speed Sync, which decreases the flash power and range even more.

For the shots that you took where the flash did fire, was the lighting adequate?

If you don't have enough power to overpower ambient by 2 or 3 stops so the flash freezes motion instead of shutter speed, then high-ISO and HSS probably is your best bet.

But if you're more than about 10 meters from your subject, then HSS is just going to give a touch of fill light. Probably about the same as you'd see by reducing flash power manually down to 1/4. Except without the limitations of xsync.

If you could post a couple of examples (with EXIF) of what you're getting with and without flash, that would really help.

Hi again, just had a search through my folders. I did not take many shots that day but this is just a sample, please click on Info.

http://roysphotos2.zen​folio.com/p538489529/e​3287d7f0

Looking back into that Info I think I should have increased the ISO from 250 to 400....what do you suggest.

Set the Camera and flash to manual then reduce the power off the flash OLD BOY

Increasing the ISO value means that a flash has to output less of its charge for the same photo. If you DOUBLE the ISO value, it is twice as sensitive to light. So instead of throwing a full bucket of water on the scene, the flash needs to be throwing a half bucket for a shot. That means you can take a second photo (with the second half of the bucket) before having to wait for the bucket to fill up sufficiently (a least half way) to take a third shot.

g4whq wrote in post #13279330
Hi again, just had a search through my folders. I did not take many shots that day but this is just a sample, please click on Info.

http://roysphotos2.zen​folio.com/p538489529/e​3287d7f0

Looking back into that Info I think I should have increased the ISO from 250 to 400....what do you suggest.

I didn't look at the EXIF for all of them, but I checked about ten of them and saw 1/800" and ISO 320. Plenty of daylight. And yes, if you wanted faster shutter speed, you can easily go up to ISO 400, 640, or even 800.

It's daylight and you're more than 10 meters away. So with SS faster than xsync, you're just going to get HSS for a tiny bit of fill.

What are you wanting the flash to do at 8fps?

How did this go from Multi-Stroboscopic flash to HSS at 1/800th?
When talking about Mulit-strobe you are using long exposure times and firing the flash multiple times during that same long exposure. Now you are just talking about the flash not being able to keep up with 8 frames per second. And as already stated ..It's not going to. Not outdoors in sunlight. You are going to need way more flash than a 580 for that.

Clarence
The mk3 is set to 8fps but I only shoot 2 to 3 frames at a time to capture the action. I have noticed the other photographer on track uses flash most of the time but he uses Nikon so we are not compatible think he mentioned he works manual. My plan is to fill some light on to the underside of an overhead bike coming towards me. Many thanks you have all been very helpful, I may put this to the test at the weekend.
Do I need to set the flash to Manual adjust the shutter speed by adjusting the ISO. I have been using the flash set to E-TTL high speed sync.

Roy.

Clarence
Think I have dug myself into a big hole, too be quite honest, don't really understand what I am doing. I did a few test shots today. I set the 580 to Multi to 5 on your chart, HSS, Mk3 Manual mode 1/800 @ f4 ISO 400 24-105 lens the flash fired all 3 frames but the shutter speed was only showing 1/300 the image was a little over exposed also. Would the flash shutter speed produce more than 1/300 ? if not what do I need to do to get more shutter speed.

g4whq wrote in post #13283978
Clarence
Think I have dug myself into a big hole, too be quite honest, don't really understand what I am doing. I did a few test shots today. I set the 580 to Multi to 5 on your chart, HSS, Mk3 Manual mode 1/800 @ f4 ISO 400 24-105 lens the flash fired all 3 frames but the shutter speed was only showing 1/300 the image was a little over exposed also. Would the flash shutter speed produce more than 1/300 ? if not what do I need to do to get more shutter speed.

I'll try to state what I said before in simpler terms...

If your shutter speed is above 1/300" on the 1D Mk 3, the flash will switch over to HSS mode.

HSS mode will have less light output and less range.

Even if you switch back to regular flash mode and get full 1:1 output from your flash, you're not going to get enough flash to overpower all of that nice daylight and stop action.

Even with the lower power HSS settings on your flash, you're too far away to get much of the light pulses reaching your subject.

If you reduce your power to 1/4 or less, you might be able to take 2-3 consecutive flashes, but the range is going to be much, much, much less than a single 1:1 flash.

A flash burst of 1/4 power or HSS is not going to "fill some light on to the underside of an overhead bike coming towards me" in daylight unless the flash is laying on the ground where the bike is jumping.

The intent of Stroboscopic mode is even further from what you're trying to do than single M flash or HSS pulsing.

Bottom line, with a single on-camera speedlite, in daylight like this, with the distance from the subject, you're not going to get much effect from a flash no matter what your settings.

If you wanted to try anything just for a different effect (deep blue underexposed skies and flash isolating the bike and rider), you could play with dropping down to a really low ISO (50 or 100) and seeing if a Better Beamer can help the light reach the motorbike. But this would still take 1:1 full-power flash and you'd get 1 shot every 3 seconds... no 8fps, even for only 2-3 consecutive shots.

Similar to what Dave Black does with daytime motorcross... http://www.pocketwizar​d.com …hnology/hypersy​nc_fpsync/

Just to be clear, for what you are doing you dont want the flash in multi mode.