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Thread started 25 Oct 2011 (Tuesday) 07:17
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Flickr favorites: What's so great about volleyball?

 
Ralpho
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Oct 25, 2011 07:17 |  #1

I am a college sports photographer, and in addition to offering photos for sale on my own web site ( http://rodcannon.com (external link) ) I put them on Flickr.

http://www.flickr.com/​photos/echtinaw/ (external link)

That's mostly just to store the high resolution files, but it's kind of neat when someone designates one of my photos as a "favorite."

The weird part is that 99 percent of the favorites are volleyball pictures. Evidently, these people don't care for my photos of basketball, football, soccer, softball and baseball.

I'd appreciate your comments on why this is so. I have a theory of my own that I'll keep to myself for now.




  
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ssim
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Oct 25, 2011 14:33 |  #2

What's the breakdown between those designating female volleyball vs male volleyball players. I have a hunch which one would win out and then you have your answer.


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Huskers69
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Oct 25, 2011 14:43 |  #3

Why? 18-22 year old women in Spanx.


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Nmcgrew
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Oct 25, 2011 15:17 |  #4

Huskers69 wrote in post #13305007 (external link)
Why? 18-22 year old women in Spanx.

This.




  
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stugotzo
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Oct 25, 2011 15:45 |  #5

What the others have said.

But, in a very brief tour of your flickr pics, your football pics appear to be from very far away, and the volleyball pics are in much more tight. No pun intended. :o


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Ralpho
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Oct 25, 2011 15:53 as a reply to  @ stugotzo's post |  #6

I only shoot female volleyball. Colleges (around here at least) don't have male volleyball. Yeah, I guess it has something to do with the uniforms. Just wanted to see if anyone else guessed that. I suppose these people who are looking at my volleyball pictures aren't exactly sports fans.




  
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MJPhotos24
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Oct 25, 2011 15:53 |  #7

I'm a bit confused - not to as why vball pics are favorites, but as to why would you put them on your own site for sale and then just give them away for free on flickr at full res...this makes no sense!?! You have a notice to go buy them on flickr but can easily grab the original without a problem...um?? Of course prices on your site are giving them aways anyway so maybe that's it.


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Snydremark
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Oct 25, 2011 16:08 |  #8

Besides the other sports being framed a bit too loosely, as a previous poster mentions, the biggest difference I see between your VB shots and the others is that you have a *much* higher percentage of VB shots showing the player's faces/fronts instead of their backs. One of the biggest things with sports and even wildlife is getting the eyes/face in the shots; back or back of the head pretty much kills the shot.

Focus on getting the action from the side the player with the ball is facing in your BB and soccer shots a bit more, as well as tightening up on your framing and you may see an increase in hits on those games as well.


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Ralpho
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Oct 25, 2011 17:00 |  #9

MJPhotos24 wrote in post #13305395 (external link)
I'm a bit confused - not to as why vball pics are favorites, but as to why would you put them on your own site for sale and then just give them away for free on flickr at full res...this makes no sense!?! You have a notice to go buy them on flickr but can easily grab the original without a problem...um?? Of course prices on your site are giving them aways anyway so maybe that's it.

I was under the impression that only I could download my images on Flickr. Am I wrong about that?




  
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MJPhotos24
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Oct 25, 2011 17:02 |  #10

Ralpho wrote in post #13305747 (external link)
I was under the impression that only I could download my images on Flickr. Am I wrong about that?

Yup, it took me right to full size...


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Snydremark
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Oct 25, 2011 17:52 |  #11

Ralpho wrote in post #13305747 (external link)
I was under the impression that only I could download my images on Flickr. Am I wrong about that?

You can certainly set it UP that way; but you'd have to go in and configure that. Right now, anyone with a Flickr account can go in, "View All Sizes" and save off the high res shot. Also, even if you DO set that; if someone really wants it, they can pull up the image and use any screenshot utility to grab a copy.


- Eric S.: My Birds/Wildlife (external link) (R5, RF 800 f/11, Canon 16-35 F/4 MkII, Canon 24-105L f/4 IS, Canon 70-200L f/2.8 IS MkII, Canon 100-400L f/4.5-5.6 IS I/II)
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wyofizz
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Oct 25, 2011 18:49 |  #12

MJPhotos24 wrote in post #13305395 (external link)
I'm a bit confused - not to as why vball pics are favorites, but as to why would you put them on your own site for sale and then just give them away for free on flickr at full res...this makes no sense!?! You have a notice to go buy them on flickr but can easily grab the original without a problem...um?? Of course prices on your site are giving them aways anyway so maybe that's it.

Agree with above. I don't know how one could break even at those prices.


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Ralpho
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Oct 26, 2011 04:46 as a reply to  @ wyofizz's post |  #13

Thanks for letting me know anyone could download my Flickr photos. I changed my preferences, so you shouldn't be able to do it now. As for the screen shots, I'll take my chances.

As for my low prices... They used to be $3.99 for 4x6 prints and higher for everything else. I wasn't making much money at that price and decided to reduce it to see how much sales increased. I have been at the $1.43 point since beginning of current school year. So far sales are better than last year, and I am making more money in football, men's soccer and volleyball. Women's soccer is a lagger for some reason.

For example, I've had 16 sales and $213 revenue for volleyball since Sept. 5. But for 12 months from September 2010 through August 2011 I had only nine volleyball sales and $192 in revenue.

I'm not doing this in the hope that I'll eventually be able to make a living at it. The satisfaction of getting my pictures into the hands of those who appreciate them is equally important to the money I make.

Besides, what I do is increasingly what a lot of parents of college athletes do, too. I have digital technology to thank for that. The market won't sustain prices as high as it would several years ago.




  
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JeffreyG
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Oct 26, 2011 05:36 |  #14

Try changing your business model. Shooting on speculation is a tough approach in a lot of markets. You have to somehow get the parents / athletes to know about your site, they have to maintain interest all the way home to the point they will bother logging in, and then they have to be willing to wade through all your shots to find their kid.

From what I've seen, most speculation shooters are not willing to cull bad shots hard enough or order the picture by player, which makes the customers work too hard.

I contact teams and only shoot once I have a contract to provide the team with a set package of materials that they can use for their banquet. I also sell online, but since these sales are above and beyond the contract I've already been paid and this is a nice extra. It's easier to direct parents to the website as well once they have seen what is available at the banquet.

Like you, I find that setting the individual photo prices high results in no sales, and that's from customers who even know what the material looks like. But still - You shoot over a month and gross only a couple hundred bucks - time to change the approach.

As for the original question - yup, it's the bun huggers. There are a lot of really lonely guys out there. I use Flickr to share photos with my friends and family (easier than trying to e-mail image files) and the types of images that draw a lot of hits are always of a certain type. The first time I ever shot Volleyball a few years ago was as a trial for a neighbor's daughter and so I put the shots on Flickr at the time. I've never taken them down and they still pull a lot of views. So does any shot I've ever posted of a girl in a swimsuit.....even if the girl is nine years old. I assume this is from folks who can't see the thumbnail too good or something.


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Ralpho
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Oct 26, 2011 06:02 |  #15

Thanks for the feedback. I agree that many, if not most, people who sell sports action photos online don't delete the stinkers. I also agree that many prospective customers won't wade through the dreck to reach the few decent shots. I keep 40-90 photos from each game or match; averaging 55 or so. And the Exposure Manager site is easy to understand. So I don't think I'm losing customers that way.

I appreciate your suggestions for making more money, but I like to shoot what I feel like shooting. And I don't want the extra (non-photography) work of getting contracts and attending post-season banquets. For me this is more of a hobby that pays for itself.

It would be great to somehow get results of a survey of my customers and near customers, particularly the latter. All I can do is guess as to why they don't buy. My best guess is that they procrastinate. They say, "These are great pictures, and I'm going to buy some... But not today." And, of course, they eventually forget about it. Others have their own cameras and provide their own pictures. The worst of those (from my point of view) shoot the whole team and gift the pictures to parents and players.

Although this is getting a little better lately, as parent-shooters are staring to just put their photos online, not bothering to make prints. A few years ago they were making CDs for everyone.

Exposure Manager has an advanced account that costs more money, and I tried it for two years. You can capture email addresses when people visit your galleries and send targeted emails to them. EM's software can tell how many of these "email blast" messages are actually opened. I never got past 10 percent opened. So potential customers are deleting the messages unopened, or a spam filter is capturing them.

And every year someone had problems getting the site to recognize their email address. I gave up and went back to the standard account.

JeffreyG wrote in post #13308411 (external link)
Try changing your business model. Shooting on speculation is a tough approach in a lot of markets. You have to somehow get the parents / athletes to know about your site, they have to maintain interest all the way home to the point they will bother logging in, and then they have to be willing to wade through all your shots to find their kid.

From what I've seen, most speculation shooters are not willing to cull bad shots hard enough or order the picture by player, which makes the customers work too hard.

I contact teams and only shoot once I have a contract to provide the team with a set package of materials that they can use for their banquet. I also sell online, but since these sales are above and beyond the contract I've already been paid and this is a nice extra. It's easier to direct parents to the website as well once they have seen what is available at the banquet.

Like you, I find that setting the individual photo prices high results in no sales, and that's from customers who even know what the material looks like. But still - You shoot over a month and gross only a couple hundred bucks - time to change the approach.




  
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Flickr favorites: What's so great about volleyball?
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