assistance with night soccer

Ok so if you have followed my stuff.. i have been having problems getting soccer when the sun goes down.. tried with my 55-250mm.. now the pics come out "ok" and others think they are great.. but to me.. no way..

so can someone give me some pointers? I have read enough where people say turn up the iso... make sure to get the exposure tonight...

so tonight is soccer practice at 7pm.. and it will be dark.. and by end 8:30pm it will be nice and dark....

so..
t2i
85mm f/1.8 and 55-250 f/4-5.6

I will shoot raw and jpg
so when people say get the exposure right...
spors = speed... so even at that... someone explained to me.. say my 85mm...
85mm x 1.6 = 136 so speed at least 1/136 (1/160)
so if i try my 85mm on manual...
f/2.0
speed 160-200
iso - auto (or am i better off choosing 1600 max or 3200 max???)

im horrible at night stuff.. I know part of it is I need to learn.. but is it also my lenses? i was told for night hockey the 85mm would be the best bang for the buck (i would love a 70-200 f/2.8 IS though... but not in the budget for another year)....

so if anyone has any recommendations... id appreciate it...

i started looking at the histogram when taking pics but i have no clue what im looking at... even googling it and reading other things.. i see what they mean by too dark histo is to the left.. and too bright it is to the right.. but they dont say how to counter it...


so i very well appreciate any help on this easy topic that i have so much trouble grasping!!!!
~Jeff


*************** edited

here are some links to dark time pictures... i was able to brighten them some and the stuff but i think not one of them are good..
now i have also noticed that photobucket changes the size of the pics too.. 1024 on the long end... so i uploaded full sized pics and they resized and possibly compressed because they look better on my computer than up there...


http://s1238.photobuck​et.com …MTYS%20Inferno/​Scrimmage/

Have you considered a flash and maybe a flash extender? The 580EX and 580EX II zoom a bit with your lens. I know extenders are used for wildlife photography but can't think of anyone using them for sports.

TeleFragger,

Soccer is a large field to cover and to cover it well you need he reach. As you have noticed,
your 55-250 may be ok during the day, it's not going to cut it at dusk or in the later hours.
Your have only a few choices but each has its drawbacks. Bump your ISO and you get more noise.
Use your 85mm lens, but you limit yourself to only shots that come into the immediate area where
you are shooting. Use an external flash ( a whole other learning curve ) and mount it off camera
to avoid "red eye". Get a faster lens but of course that means $$$. An alternative to a 70-200
is a "200 f/2.8L" prime. It's 1/3 the price, use your feet to zoom. That would give you the speed
and decent coverage of the field. You'll have to chase the action but this lens is fast, sharp and
"L class", worthy.

Kids soccer I would say you need 320 - 400 for shutter speed.

Joemt.

Tom_D wrote in post #13303000
Have you considered a flash and maybe a flash extender? The 580EX and 580EX II zoom a bit with your lens. I know extenders are used for wildlife photography but can't think of anyone using them for sports.

well i doubt the kids would appreciate the flash on them..
hey maybe it will help our team out with the win!!!!!!

Joemt wrote in post #13303004
TeleFragger,

Soccer is a large field to cover and to cover it well you need he reach. As you have noticed,
your 55-250 may be ok during the day, it's not going to cut it at dusk or in the later hours.
Your have only a few choices but each has its drawbacks. Bump your ISO and you get more noise.
Use your 85mm lens, but you limit yourself to only shots that come into the immediate area where
you are shooting. Use an external flash ( a whole other learning curve ) and mount it off camera
to avoid "red eye". Get a faster lens but of course that means $$$. An alternative to a 70-200
is a "200 f/2.8L" prime. It's 1/3 the price, use your feet to zoom. That would give you the speed
and decent coverage of the field. You'll have to chase the action but this lens is fast, sharp and
"L class", worthy.

Kids soccer I would say you need 320 - 400 for shutter speed.

Joemt.

appreciate your response... so you hit a few things that bring all great points out...
it isnt entirely me.. just some..

bump iso - i usually leave it on auto so it will go where it needs to... should i set this since im in manual and not rely on the camera to choose?

85mm - i agree id have a lot more walking to do... that field is huge.. i would loose weight but be winded!!!!

flash - dont think that would be appropriate...

only downside to any prime.. even my 85mm... is the fact that when they get close... forget the pictures.. id have to always be on an angle... so i have used my 55-250 @ 55 and through 250... i thought about a 100-400 but the F4 will give similar results during dusk and also close shots....


so what im thinking the only thing that could do better is maybe not to save up for a better lens.. maybe it is nearing time to go with a better camera? im not starting a crop vs ff debate... obviously the more expensive bodies are more expensive for a reason... i have seen pics with higher end bodies that take beautiful shots in low light at high ISO...

guessing im gonna have to start saving up some coinage towards a better body.. i love my t2i for the functionality and cost....

TeleFragger wrote in post #13302922
* * *
spors = speed... so even at that... someone explained to me.. say my 85mm...
85mm x 1.6 = 136 so speed at least 1/136 (1/160)
so if i try my 85mm on manual...
f/2.0
speed 160-200

This calculation just gives you a shutter speed that should prevent blur from camera movement - it is not related to possible blur from subject movement. To get a sharp image of kids playing soccer you'll want a faster shutter speed - probably no less than 1/250 sec., and preferably faster than that.

TeleFragger wrote in post #13302922
iso - auto (or am i better off choosing 1600 max or 3200 max???)

Auto will probably give you what the camera thinks is the correct ISO for a medium gray scene. Personally, I'd prefer to set the ISO myself based on the shutter speed I want to use, and my preference for exposing to the right as much as possible, especially at higher ISOs, to keep noise down.

TeleFragger wrote in post #13302922
im horrible at night stuff.. I know part of it is I need to learn.. but is it also my lenses? i was told for night hockey the 85mm would be the best bang for the buck (i would love a 70-200 f/2.8 IS though... but not in the budget for another year)....

Although your zoom isn't as "fast" as your 85, you can still probably get decent shots at higher ISOs, which will compensate for the f/4-f/5.6 range of your zoom.

TeleFragger wrote in post #13302922
so if anyone has any recommendations... id appreciate it...

i started looking at the histogram when taking pics but i have no clue what im looking at... even googling it and reading other things.. i see what they mean by too dark histo is to the left.. and too bright it is to the right.. but they dont say how to counter it...

* * *

You change the histogram by changing your exposure settings and thus changing the exposure captured by the camera. To increase exposure, either drop the shutter speed, open up the aperture, or raise the ISO, or a combination of these.

My approach for what you want to do would be to set the shutter speed I wanted to use to freeze motion (say 1/500 sec.), set maybe ISO 800 as a starting point, and set a wide-open aperture (f/1.8 on your 85), and then press the shutter button halfway and see how under-exposed the scene is. Use the meter bar in your viewfinder - the further left of center the pointer is, the more under-exposed the scene is (your meter bar has shorter and taller vertical marks - the small ones are fractions of a stop and and taller ones are full stops - count how many down from center the pointer is to see how many stops/fractions of stops).

Let's say you see that the scene is 2 stops under-exposed. You can't go to a wider aperture, so you need to adjust either shutter speed or ISO, or both, to increase the exposure (technically ISO doesn't affect the exposure, but don't worry about that now). You'd need to drop the shutter speed to 1/125 sec. to increase exposure by two stops, or increase ISO to 3200, or you could drop shutter speed to 1/250 and increase ISO to 1600 for the same change in exposure. Do one of these, press the shutter button down halfway, and see how it looks now. The exposure pointer on the meter bar in your viewfinder should be just about centered.

I assume you're probably using evaluative metering, which means the camera is assessing the darkness and brightness levels of everything in the scene when it calculates the "correct" exposure. Because of how camera metering/exposure systems work, that means the camera will be set to expose a neutral gray scene (not too dark, not too bright), which is what the exposure pointer being centered means. Depending on the scene, this might actually result in an image that is too dark or too bright. You need to learn to apply exposure compensation or adjust your settings if shooting in manual to overcome the exposure system's programming, which is designed to produce a neutral gray scene.

That's where the histogram comes in. You want the brightest thing in the scene in which you want to retain detail to be as close to the right edge of the histogram as you can get it without touching that edge.

For best results, you would shoot in RAW, not JPEG, so you could get the maximum exposure adjustment "wiggle room" in your captured images when post processing. Assuming you're shooting in JPEG, you'll have to go with what your camera does in processing the images.

For some great reading on exposure and metering, take a look at these links:
http://www.cambridgein​colour.com/tutorials/c​amera-exposure.htm
http://www.cambridgein​colour.com/tutorials/c​amera-metering.htm
http://www.cambridgein​colour.com/tutorials/h​istograms1.htm
http://www.cambridgein​colour.com/tutorials/h​istograms2.htm

thanks stsva - i will read those links.. and also appreciate the explanation on all that..

i will print out your explanation and take it with me tonight (my son just got over pneumonia so he may/may not go)... with auto ISO i have always used that meter.. but didnt really understand how to get it to be more centered... i was always trying for the lowest ISO since on auto by adjusting the aperature and speed.. but now i see what you mean by hard set these options and go from there..

MANY THANKS!!!!!

TeleFragger wrote in post #13303070
thanks stsva - i will read those links.. and also appreciate the explanation on all that..

i will print out your explanation and take it with me tonight (my son just got over pneumonia so he may/may not go)... with auto ISO i have always used that meter.. but didnt really understand how to get it to be more centered... i was always trying for the lowest ISO since on auto by adjusting the aperature and speed.. but now i see what you mean by hard set these options and go from there..

MANY THANKS!!!!!

Note that I just edited to add a little more info. and a couple more links. I hope this is helpful.

Looking at your pics..

You do have some motion blur and the only way to stop that is to increase shutter speed at the cost of having to decrease the light coming into the camera some other way, such as ISO. You'll need to shoot at least 1/500 and possibly as fast as 1/1000 to totally freeze motion - which really limits the amount of light you can get into the camera. If you shoot in RAW you can get some extra flexibility as far as exposure adjustment and noise reduction in post.

It seems that when you have the relatively bright sky the exposure is off - which makes sense with auto ISO on as the camera is metering the entire frame. You might want to change to spot or center weighted metering (if you have those on the T2i) as it will then give more preference to the subject in the center instead of your entire frame.

Shooting at dusk is difficult, shooting long shots at dusk is even harder, pros spend thousands of dollars to get lenses to do that. At some point you just have to realize that you've hit the limits if your equipment and be happy with what you can get (easier said than done, trust me I know).

TeleFragger wrote in post #13303028
so what im thinking the only thing that could do better is maybe not to save up for a better lens.. maybe it is nearing time to go with a better camera? im not starting a crop vs ff debate... obviously the more expensive bodies are more expensive for a reason... i have seen pics with higher end bodies that take beautiful shots in low light at high ISO...

guessing im gonna have to start saving up some coinage towards a better body.. i love my t2i for the functionality and cost....

If you get a full frame camera, you'll also need new lenses..and you'll lose effective reach since it's not a crop.

I would instead suggest you save up for a 70-200 f/2.8L...and then possibly the 1.4x extender. That will still get you the same reach as your 55-250 but let in a lot more light, even with the one stop loss from the extender.

Night soccer images from a Canon 60D and a Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8 lens.

Byte size: ZERO | Content warning: NOT AN IMAGE

Byte size: ZERO | Content warning: NOT AN IMAGE

Byte size: ZERO | Content warning: NOT AN IMAGE

TeleFragger wrote in post #13302922
Ok so if you have followed my stuff.. i have been having problems getting soccer when the sun goes down.. tried with my 55-250mm.. now the pics come out "ok" and others think they are great.. but to me.. no way..
so can someone give me some pointers? I have read enough where people say turn up the iso... make sure to get the exposure tonight...
so tonight is soccer practice at 7pm.. and it will be dark.. and by end 8:30pm it will be nice and dark....

so..
t2i
85mm f/1.8 and 55-250 f/4-5.6

I will shoot raw and jpg
so when people say get the exposure right...
spors = speed... so even at that... someone explained to me.. say my 85mm...
85mm x 1.6 = 136 so speed at least 1/136 (1/160)
so if i try my 85mm on manual...
f/2.0
speed 160-200
iso - auto (or am i better off choosing 1600 max or 3200 max???)

im horrible at night stuff.. I know part of it is I need to learn.. but is it also my lenses? i was told for night hockey the 85mm would be the best bang for the buck (i would love a 70-200 f/2.8 IS though... but not in the budget for another year)....

so if anyone has any recommendations... id appreciate it...

i started looking at the histogram when taking pics but i have no clue what im looking at... even googling it and reading other things.. i see what they mean by too dark histo is to the left.. and too bright it is to the right.. but they dont say how to counter it...


so i very well appreciate any help on this easy topic that i have so much trouble grasping!!!!
~Jeff


*************** edited

here are some links to dark time pictures... i was able to brighten them some and the stuff but i think not one of them are good..
now i have also noticed that photobucket changes the size of the pics too.. 1024 on the long end... so i uploaded full sized pics and they resized and possibly compressed because they look better on my computer than up there...

http://s1238.photobuck​et.com …MTYS%20Inferno/​Scrimmage/

As others have said, a long 2.8 telephoto lens is good for night games, especially at dusk without any lights. If the games are played under lights you should be able to get some pics with the Canon 55-250IS and shooting RAW

e.g.

XSi (450D) with Canon 55-250IS
ISO 1600 (pushed in PP)
1/320
f5
150mm

DC Fan wrote in post #13303438
A long and fast lens is essential, along with a camera body that has clean high ISO performance. The 70-200mm lens has just enough reach for usefully-framed images of action within maybe 20-40 meters of the camera location.

Yeah you also have lights on the field. If you look at his pics they are just playing on a rec field with no lights. Very challenging shooting conditions.

DC Fan - nice pics.. that is what im trying to accomplish... i do feel im at the end of my 55-250... i think the 2.8 on the 70-200 is what i need...

do i need IS? i know people say take IS off on a tripod and for sport.. but then i see others where they say leave it on for sports..

Keyan wrote in post #13303481
Yeah you also have lights on the field. If you look at his pics they are just playing on a rec field with no lights. Very challenging shooting conditions.

on OUR fields.. will take a pic if i go tonigt.. they have 1 generator running light kit (2 lights on top of a long pole) on say lower left.. and then one on the other side of the field on upper right..

TeleFragger wrote in post #13303488
DC Fan - nice pics.. that is what im trying to accomplish... i do feel im at the end of my 55-250... i think the 2.8 on the 70-200 is what i need...

do i need IS? i know people say take IS off on a tripod and for sport.. but then i see others where they say leave it on for sports..

IS only helps with camera movement, not with subject movement. A fast shutter speed is key to getting sharp images of fast moving subjects. There does seem to be some debate on whether IS should be used with fast shutter speeds; with regard to IS and tripods, some IS lenses detect placement on a tripod and shut the IS off to avoid issues, but many IS lenses do not and the IS actually causes image blur on a tripod.