Anyone using More Powerful Flash than 580?

I'm generally happy with my 580's, but am sometimes frustrated or feel limited by their power. I feel that some high-powered options like Rangers and others are not portable enough or require more set up then would be suited for the way I like to shoot and run my day.

So I've been seeking that middle ground. I'm considering something like the 400 w/s Qflash. Quite a bit more power though not enough to over-power the sun, more portable than other options, etc. Not cheap, but not horrible either.

I'm not planning on using this as my primary flash; I'd still work with my 580's most of the time. It's mostly something to help we as an off-camera flash (usually in M) when the sun is too harsh and the 580's just can't stand up to it.

I've started a similar thread in Lighting, but am curious about what other wedding photographers are doing in this regard.

I believe Bryan (Red Tie Photography) uses the Q-Flash.

Robert

I stopped using 580's outside this season for the same reasons. We started using the following

2 mini vagabonds
2 AB 1600's
3 pocket wizards

2 stands, 2 medium soft boxes

I talked to a couple of guys who use the Qflash system and i think its good to go until you get close to F/10. The vagabonds and stands takes about 3 minutes to set up and they compete all day with the sun. We also started using ND filters and using lloyds technique for our senior portraits and outdoor bridal party shots. Really works great and no hassell. Easy to break away with 1 stand to do individual work or smaller party shots. these are very close to being straight off the camera. All have ND filters on the camera.

Thanks, Mike.

That's exactly the kind of look I'm hoping to achieve.

I guess I need to look harder into ND filters. Anecdotally, I'm not getting why they're effective. I understand how they can allow you a larger aperture while keeping to max sync, but not sure how they're helping to balance the light once at sync since the ND filters must also block output from the flash, no?

Once set up, what's it like moving the AB's and Vagabond around? Right now, I work with an assistant who essentially keeps a 580 "on a stick" with a manual trigger and he just ups or downs output as necessary. I can imagine us at a park and wanting to shoot here, then over there, then somewhere else. I'm sure it's not like a flash on a stick, but a reasonably easy setup to move around?

Thanks for the insights and a nice couple of shots. BTW, in the shot with the couple, do you remember if the primary light was the sun and you're lights were filling or were they actually the key light?

Peacefield wrote in post #13333198
Thanks, Mike.

Once set up, what's it like moving the AB's and Vagabond around? Right now, I work with an assistant who essentially keeps a 580 "on a stick" with a manual trigger and he just ups or downs output as necessary. I can imagine us at a park and wanting to shoot here, then over there, then somewhere else. I'm sure it's not like a flash on a stick, but a reasonably easy setup to move around?

i find that it can move around almost as easy as a 580 on a stick. just heavier. but i don't use a softbox on location like mike does..
i do mount the vagabond to the "stick" at the bottom, and it almost acts as ballast

for example i carried an ab800 & vagabond on a lightstand, along with my bag and camera up a pretty steep trail to get this shot:

Peacefield wrote in post #13333198
Thanks, Mike.


I guess I need to look harder into ND filters. Anecdotally, I'm not getting why they're effective. I understand how they can allow you a larger aperture while keeping to max sync, but not sure how they're helping to balance the light once at sync since the ND filters must also block output from the flash, no?

An ND filter will not change the balance of natural light and flash but it will allow you to cut back on the light so that you can more easily achieve your sync speed without having to close the aperture way down.

Mike, can you elaborate on Lloyd's method for outdoor portraits? (Are you talking about the usage of ND filters? If so, never mind...don't need an explanation for that one)

Peacefield wrote in post #13333198
Thanks, Mike.

That's exactly the kind of look I'm hoping to achieve.

I guess I need to look harder into ND filters. Anecdotally, I'm not getting why they're effective. I understand how they can allow you a larger aperture while keeping to max sync, but not sure how they're helping to balance the light once at sync since the ND filters must also block output from the flash, no?

Once set up, what's it like moving the AB's and Vagabond around? Right now, I work with an assistant who essentially keeps a 580 "on a stick" with a manual trigger and he just ups or downs output as necessary. I can imagine us at a park and wanting to shoot here, then over there, then somewhere else. I'm sure it's not like a flash on a stick, but a reasonably easy setup to move around?

Thanks for the insights and a nice couple of shots. BTW, in the shot with the couple, do you remember if the primary light was the sun and you're lights were filling or were they actually the key light?

Shots with the bridal couple were in direct 12 oclock not a single cloud in the sky sun. That why they were squinting a little, but they wanted there 1st look on that bridge.

Moving around- easy to do. Just pick it up and go. I like a stand but it has its draw backs if you dont have an assistant. The wind caught one when i wasnt looking and it landed in a lake. cost me $45.00 to have Paul Buff rebuild the light, so since that incident, someone is holding the stand. I used it all seasonn last year for the seniors and had zero spills. This season i had 1. Ticked me off. Yopu cannot use umbrellas. Any wind at all, even a slight breze, sends it sailing. Broke 2 umbrellas last season so no more outside shots with umbrellas unless 2 people are holding the stand.

ND Filters. Like looking through sunglasses. Same affect. Your reducing the light intensity on your sensor. Allows you to shoot and get shallower DOF and in full F/16 sun, allows you to drop the intensity of the light. This means Very blue skies, nicer contrast of the light in the shot, better colors. I generally use a 2x or 4x ND filter in sun. When I have one on, im looking to keep my shutter over 1/125 usually at 1/160. Viewfinder is your friend. Most important, your light source still has to be able to light what your ambient is. So if its F/16, you still need to light your client at F/16 or they are underexposed. The advantage is the rest of the shot gets the benefit of the ND filter. It works really good.

Cant find Lloyds link, but when i do, i will forward it for you. It was a lifesaver and had great information in it

here is the link that Lloyd posted. Read this. I learned a ton and went out and played with these ND filters until i got a look that i liked. His before and after are unbelievable. Really shows what you can do to control ambient lighting with ND filters and great lighting. The trick is to get your subject barely visible in the shot with the ND filter on, Then turn up the power on the light to expose your client. The technique is awesome in full sun where your client is partially shaded.


https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1069891

These were also straight off the camera as far as lighting goes. 2x ND filters and a softbox. Great light contrast due to that ND filter. I cant get this type of lighting contrast w/o ND filters. Saturations, colors, contrast are awesome. I Also use Circulars and 2x nd filters in brighter light. Lloyd is a genious at this. Took me a several trys to get it figured out. Test shots, clients were barely visible in the view finder and with ambient, you have to find a look that you want. Ambient,,Its visible especially in areas that would be blown w/o the filters. got to play with it to find your look.......Thanks lloyd !!!

Yeah, I remember seeing that one. Thanks for the link. That's indeed an awesome thread. Makes me go WOW every time I see the before and after...I mean...WOW!!!

nicksan wrote in post #13333532
Yeah, I remember seeing that one. Thanks for the link. That's indeed an awesome thread. Makes me go WOW every time I see the before and after...I mean...WOW!!!

It really is remarkable information. Ive been shooting since High school and never saw or heard this type of information. Its astonishing what ambient looks like before you toss on the ND's and bring out the lights. Its much easier if you can find a light line B/t full sun and Full shade. Total No No several years ago. We were taught to never shoot into the sun like this, always look for less contrasty areas of lighting.........Not with this technique. Im still blown away with it and ive been using this technique since Lloyd put out that post. Its changed the way i light clients and a primary reason why we dumped the 580's for outdoor lighting.

I'd love to be able to use my AB800, but the vagabond mini is really expensive to get to NZ. If anyone in the US makes an order and wouldn't mind shipping one to me (without the battery I think because of the weight) please PM me.

Currently if I need more light than a 580 can provide, I use two of them, but that only gets you a stop. Even using four only gets you two stops.

Excellent info and insights (and another collection of wonderful portraits). Thanks again, Mike (and Lloyd)!

tim wrote in post #13334280
Currently if I need more light than a 580 can provide, I use two of them, but that only gets you a stop. Even using four only gets you two stops.

That's exactly what I tried on Sunday and the disappointing results are precisely what prompted my post.

If I do go Vagabond Mini, I'll let you know.