Dye Sub Printers

Mark1 wrote in post #13383235
This is my point. I didnt say it was expensive. I never even mentioned the cost at all. I meant you do indeed waste a ton of the ink simply by the design of the process. There is not even a hint of the concept of conserving of materials. 6 inches of print means 6 inches of C,M, and Y, no mater how much each contributes to the image. This point gets my goat. I dont know why, it just does.

Don't forget K, some printers do K as well.

Good point! missed a letter.

Just as an update, Adorama lied to me about the ETA of the printer and resulted in wasting a week of my time.

The web site didn't say anything about OOS when I ordered it, the rep I talked to after I got the OOS email told me it had shipped from HiTi to them and was expected the middle of last of last week, and when I called on Friday asking about it they said "they had no idea and that it was backordered from HiTi".

I've cancelled the order and am going to get the DNP DS40 instead. Ordered with NDA shipping, so hopefully it will show up tomorrow.

My experiences with Adorama have been overall positive but they let me down a couple times on this one.

DS40 and DS80 are all right (and the mitsubishi cp3800 and 70) aka citizen cx-w i believe. Some of the more reliable dye-subs out ther imho...i'd avoid copal (or the fuji rebrands thereof). Cost per print is high, though. Dye sub is good for small retail stores with un-trained ops, and good for event photography (portable). If you are looking for lower cost per page you could do WAY better with inkjet, though (think outside the box, continuous ink system and you can find 4x6 media that is only a few cents a page). If I was going to do a TON of 4x6 prints, i'd use a nice, fast, inkjet with a continuous ink system. Then find a good place to get 4x6 media from. Your cost per 4x6 is crazy, I can get 13x19 glossy sheets for .50 cents a sheet, 4x6 sheets can be found for just a few cents each. Even just going to Costco and grabbing the kirkland signature (it's quite nice paper, too) 4x6 pack would be substantial savings for you. Last time I picked some up it was approx $20.00 for 300 sheets. Was under 10 cents a sheet.

Dye-sub print quality is also poor compared to a good inkjet, or even a fairly cheap inkjet with 6 inks. Check out the black levels on those dye-sub prints, lol. Watch out for banding, too. And if you ever run like a thousand 5x7s through it and then switch back to 4x6, enjoy the hilarity of what happens there (I don't want to ruin the surprise, but I promise you there will be a warning on that in the ds40 manual, it's in the mitsu cp70 manual for sure, just checked!). Dye-sub: it's for event photographers, you can do better. :P

jasonlitka wrote in post #13383314
Don't forget K, some printers do K as well.

None of the current crop of dye-sub printers that one is likely to buy have a "K" section in their ribbon. It's just CMY. And a clear section of course. (Some let you put down a matte finish, it alters the temperature of the head when the clear coat is applied--don't be fooled, it's not matte, it's "slightly less glossy", but does look nice imho). That is one of the reasons dye-sub prints look so bad--awful black levels. B&W prints also look *terrible* from a dye-sub printer. Dye-sub is good technology, and has its place, but I just don't want you to be disapointed as you aren't the target market (photo booth people, or places where the printer must move non stop or be handled by non-technical people who might not be able to handle an inkjet or wetlab).

woos wrote in post #13431515
None of the current crop of dye-sub printers that one is likely to buy have a "K" section in their ribbon. It's just CMY. And a clear section of course. (Some let you put down a matte finish, it alters the temperature of the head when the clear coat is applied--don't be fooled, it's not matte, it's "slightly less glossy", but does look nice imho). That is one of the reasons dye-sub prints look so bad--awful black levels. B&W prints also look *terrible* from a dye-sub printer. Dye-sub is good technology, and has its place, but I just don't want you to be disapointed as you aren't the target market (photo booth people, or places where the printer must move non stop or be handled by non-technical people who might not be able to handle an inkjet or wetlab).

I've got a cheap Canon CP800 at home and the prints it makes are just as good as Costco and a lot better than Target or CVS (I've got a print in front of me, the blacks are black). I think you're coming down pretty hard on Dye-Sub.

EDIT: ... and looks like Adorama is screwing me again. I paid extra for Next Day shipping and now they've shipped the printer and sent me an email saying the paper/ink is backordered (site doesn't say anything about not having it). Complete waste of money since I can't use the printer I'll be receiving tomorrow. I'll not be shopping with Adorama anymore.

EDIT 2: In case anyone is wondering, the $80 Canon CP800 makes better prints than the $1250 DNP DS40. As woos said, the black levels stink, at least on this model. The prints are better than Target but nowhere near the quality of Costco. I can't really see any issue with the gift certs I intend to print, but I printed a few photos I had sitting around and am not pleased with how they came out. Thing is wicked-quick though, and the prints are cheap, so overall I'm really happy.

If you are using the 9000 to do any type of printing other than proofing (and sometimes even this can burn through quite a bit of ink), a continuous ink system is the only way to go. $100-$200 depending on features and brand, and the ink is way less expensive this way.

jasonlitka wrote in post #13381534
That $0.19/4x6 for the 9000 is real conservative. Dark images (like mine) use a lot more than $0.19 of ink. I also use paper that is more than $0.10/sheet.

Assuming ink is $0.20-$0.30 per 4x6, and paper is $0.10 per 4x6, total cost of consumables is $0.30-$0.40 per 4x6

I just compared the cost of CP800 supples at $44 per 108 4x6 prints, or $0.407 per print

As pointed out, a single color print always consumes the same amount $0.407 per dye sub print, whereas inkjet techology can save via the non-consumed ink.

I've got considerable experience over 20 years with dye sub printers in medical applications. Got to be very careful about storage of these prints in plastic sleeves which outgas, as they fade the colors quite rapidly. Sleeves which eventually stick to Xerographic process photocopies will also fade dyesub colors.