Elinchrom Users Only (Mark IV)

Next, pure white.

I've metered for pure white in the center on the next series of shots.

Mini Deflector

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TMR Design wrote in post #13584519
Not that's just uncalled for, Aaron.

bwuahaha....

unrelated question... when it comes to asking for money for your photography, I most definitely have a set charge for things for normal people, but what do you guys usually do for family?

As an example, I have a base price for weddings, and most people want a CD of the images, so I have a separate price for that. Now recently a young family member asked me to do their wedding photos. I just emailed the Dad and told him that we would charge him the typical price for the wedding, but throw in the CD for free.

It still felt a bit awkward, as I know its probably a steep price for them, but honestly its much lower than anyone else they would find, and of course, all this gear/knowledge isn't cheap.

So there it is... stick to my guns, or negotiate lower?

Happy birthday Rob.

Thanks for taking the time to do the tests it actually shows me something surprising, that i could probably get away with only 1 light for the BG if i set it far enough.... Interesting.

aaron.dunlap wrote in post #13584621
bwuahaha....

unrelated question... when it comes to asking for money for your photography, I most definitely have a set charge for things for normal people, but what do you guys usually do for family?

As an example, I have a base price for weddings, and most people want a CD of the images, so I have a separate price for that. Now recently a young family member asked me to do their wedding photos. I just emailed the Dad and told him that we would charge him the typical price for the wedding, but throw in the CD for free.

It still felt a bit awkward, as I know its probably a steep price for them, but honestly its much lower than anyone else they would find, and of course, all this gear/knowledge isn't cheap.

So there it is... stick to my guns, or negotiate lower?

Entirely up to you, but i will share a piece of wisdom that i have kept with me for most of my years doing creative gigs for people.

"Any family or friend worth their salt would want to help me and help me succeed in my business ventures, as such a person asking me for a discount is neither of those things."

So yes, i would most likely charge my normal rate, maybe take a few more personalized steps to ensure they are happy, maybe stay a bit overtime, but nothing that i would tell them upfront.

That being said, i am open to people with restricted budgets, i am not at a point in my career where i have to turn down jobs, so considering i have the time, i charge my CODB rate + and adjust my profit margin for the specific client.

Take what i wrote with a grain of salt, i'm probably not the best person to give financial advice lol.

TMR Design wrote in post #13584620
Next, pure white.


NOTE: You're seeing bright edges because the seamless paper has a slight inward curl and you're also seeing top and bottom highlights from reflected light. I do have an 8 foot white ceiling and that in a contributing factor.

Another thing to keep in mind is that although we're looking at coverage and evenness, in most cases, this type of background lighting is done with 2 lights, one on each side. For that reason the horizontal coverage is very important, as it allows for the falloff at the edges to overlap and bring the center up to areas outside the center.

Thanks for the test Rob.

Did you take any shots on the white with the two lights either side and showing the blown out coverage?

TMR Design wrote in post #13584620
Next, pure white.

I've metered for pure white in the center on the next series of shots.

Obviously, it's easy for the eye to be fooled and not see gradations but if you look carefully you'll see them, and in these next shots with highlight clipping activated, the difference in coverage is seen.

For what it's worth, I think the Mini and Maxi silver deflectors do about the same job but the White deflector shows that it's not giving the same coverage.

NOTE: You're seeing bright edges because the seamless paper has a slight inward curl and you're also seeing top and bottom highlights from reflected light. I do have an 8 foot white ceiling and that in a contributing factor.

Another thing to keep in mind is that although we're looking at coverage and evenness, in most cases, this type of background lighting is done with 2 lights, one on each side. For that reason the horizontal coverage is very important, as it allows for the falloff at the edges to overlap and bring the center up to areas outside the center.

Thanks for showing this, Robert. I can see why you think that the silver deflector gives you a more even coverage but I still disagree with, and more so after seeing your test shots. You said you metered for a pure white in the center. But the center has is less bright than the outside as you acknowledged in your previous post. So, metering for the center will of course blow out the outer area of the background so that the cover seems to be more even when in fact, it is not. The best test for eveness in coverage is to meter the differences in brightness across the whole background. Or, if you can, show us the results of a test similar to what I did which shows the progression of the BG getting blown out as brightness is increased in 1/3 stop increments.

BTW, happy birthday!

Csae wrote in post #13584690
Entirely up to you, but i will share a piece of wisdom that i have kept with me for most of my years doing creative gigs for people.

"Any family or friend worth their salt would want to help me and help me succeed in my business ventures, as such a person asking me for a discount is neither of those things."

So yes, i would most likely charge my normal rate, maybe take a few more personalized steps to ensure they are happy, maybe stay a bit overtime, but nothing that i would tell them upfront.

That being said, i am open to people with restricted budgets, i am not at a point in my career where i have to turn down jobs, so considering i have the time, i charge my CODB rate + and adjust my profit margin for the specific client.

Take what i wrote with a grain of salt, i'm probably not the best person to give financial advice lol.

This is good advice. I had already planned to do a few extra special things for them that I don't do for other couples in the base price range (photoshop work, a large print of the bride, etc). Hopefully everything will be copasetic.

Happy birthday, Rob!

PacAce wrote in post #13585036
Thanks for showing this, Robert. I can see why you think that the silver deflector gives you a more even coverage but I still disagree with, and more so after seeing your test shots. You said you metered for a pure white in the center. But the center has is less bright than the outside as you acknowledged in your previous post. So, metering for the center will of course blow out the outer area of the background so that the cover seems to be more even when in fact, it is not. The best test for eveness in coverage is to meter the differences in brightness across the whole background. Or, if you can, show us the results of a test similar to what I did which shows the progression of the BG getting blown out as brightness is increased in 1/3 stop increments.

BTW, happy birthday!

Once you have things configured correctly, the differences are so negligible and the fact that I'm seeing those same values for pure white at the outside is what's important.

If we now go to a real world shooting situation, this is what I can tell you. Once I'm set up and have my pure white value at the center (using 2 strobes), I now take my meter and go to about 16 different locations from top to bottom and left to right and I NEVER see more than 1/10 stop variation on the entire background. That's pretty darn good and I can't make that happen without this setup, and I've tried many.

EDIT: When I meter for pure white it's based on knowing exactly where that point occurs, so if I'm over by 1/10 stop I feel pretty good about that considering that most people turn white backgrounds thermonuclear without truly knowing where white turns to white with no detail.

Thanks for the birthday wishes, guys.

Thanks for that info Robert, good to hear my maxi deflectors aren't harming my progress. I see in your photos 2x300/600RXs on the little manfrotto arms, I assume these are your normal lights for rendering pure white? If so are they also 4feet from the background? I'm considering getting 1 more autopole and using them to mount my background lights because the footprint of my most of my stands is a little too big to sit comfortably next to my seamless.

P.s Happy B'day

TMR Design wrote in post #13585053
Once you have things configured correctly, the differences are so negligible and the fact that I'm seeing those same values for pure white at the outside is what's important.

If we now go to a real world shooting situation, this is what I can tell you. Once I'm set up and have my pure white value at the center (using 2 strobes), I now take my meter and go to about 16 different locations from top to bottom and left to right and I NEVER see more than 1/10 stop variation on the entire background. That's pretty darn good and I can't make that happen without this setup, and I've tried many.

Robert, I'm not disagreeing with you here. I concur 100% that in the real world, the difference isn't even worth worrying about. But just to be clear, what I was disagreeing with your about is your comments about:

"the white translucent deflector is no better than placing a square of toilet paper in front of the flash tube" and

"the white deflector to be inferior to either mini or maxi silver deflector when it comes to coverage."

But as far as I'm concerned, both the silver and the white translucent deflectors will do the job just about equally well and that is not how it comes across with your two comments above.

PacAce wrote in post #13585109
Robert, I'm not disagreeing with you here. I concur 100% that in the real world, the difference isn't even worth worrying about. But just to be clear, what I was disagreeing with your about is your comments about:

"the white translucent deflector is no better than placing a square of toilet paper in front of the flash tube" and

"the white deflector to be inferior to either mini or maxi silver deflector when it comes to coverage."

But as far as I'm concerned, both the silver and the white translucent deflectors will do the job just about equally well and that is not how it comes across with your two comments above.

Hi Leo,

Understood and yes, we do agree. The toilet paper comment really came about because of the 'strip' I was getting from the white deflector and the comment about being inferior was based on my own results which tell me that when I light my backgrounds this way I get the best results with the mini deflectors.

TwoShoes wrote in post #13585085
Thanks for that info Robert, good to hear my maxi deflectors aren't harming my progress. I see in your photos 2x300/600RXs on the little manfrotto arms, I assume these are your normal lights for rendering pure white? If so are they also 4feet from the background? I'm considering getting 1 more autopole and using them to mount my background lights because the footprint of my most of my stands is a little too big to sit comfortably next to my seamless.

None of the deflectors could harm your progess, Luke.

The two 600RX's on the sides are mounted to Autopoles are are pretty much permanent fixtures. The setup and position has been done and I just recheck it occasionally but it saves me the time and trouble of doing the setup each time I need it. They are 4 feet from the background.

I'm using Autopoles all over my studio to save on floor real estate. I'm also working on some Franken-Pole DIY's that will give me even greater flexibility with my Autopoles.

TMR Design wrote in post #13585162
None of the deflectors could harm your progess, Luke.

The two 600RX's on the sides are mounted to Autopoles are are pretty much permanent fixtures. The setup and position has been done and I just recheck it occasionally but it saves me the time and trouble of doing the setup each time I need it. They are 4 feet from the background.

I'm using Autopoles all over my studio to save on floor real estate. I'm also working on some Franken-Pole DIY's that will give me even greater flexibility with my Autopoles.

Rob, are those 600RX's mounted to 6" snap-in extension arms, or are those some other form of extension arm?