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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
Thread started 26 Nov 2011 (Saturday) 10:47
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How can i get more clients?

 
James504
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Nov 26, 2011 10:47 |  #1
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The clients i do have are few and far between, but they pay good money....I need more clients. What is a way to get my name out there?

I took out an advertisement on a local website that has over a quarter of a million views a week....i get calls sometimes but i lose the clients when i tell them that they do not get a free Disc with Images on it.... Can any one help me get some more business? How should I handle the CD issue, I dint want to give my print sales away.

Edit: the CD is not my major issue here....

I need advice with marketing and closing a client.

Thank you for all replies so far.




  
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D ­ Thompson
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Nov 26, 2011 11:39 |  #2

James504 wrote in post #13453566 (external link)
I took out an advertisement on a local website that has over a quarter of a million views a week....i get calls all the time but i lose the clients when i tell them that they do not get a free Disc with Images on it.... Can any one help me get some more business?

The obvious thing I see is you need to change your price structure to provide the "free" disc with images if that is why you're not getting clients.


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Road_Rebel
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Nov 26, 2011 13:34 |  #3

whats your reason for not handing them the cd with the photos on? This is under the assumption that they've paid for the shoot already...


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DreamState
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Nov 26, 2011 13:51 |  #4

Do some networking! Talk to a few event planners, tell them you will shoot at their event, and will give them a price break if they hire you. There are tons of churches and temples, as well as mosques locally that need a photographer but do not have a significant budget to get some top notch pros. Approach them, let people see your work through the deals you do at places like that. Its not just about weddings and models and birthday parties and portraits. There are tons of availabilities. Artists who paint, want their paintings to be captured in the "right light". Contact some local painters, offer your services and tell them you will work with them on a regular basis if they come to you at the bundle price you will give them. There are dance studios in the city, hit them up, leave them your info. Tell them you're available to photograph their performances anywhere in the city. Tons more. If you're willing to do the footwork aside from craigslist and news paper ads and local site ads, you will see there are a lot more opportunities.

Oh and give the photos on a CD/DVD. It will help your biz. People love freebies.




  
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sandpiper
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Nov 26, 2011 13:53 as a reply to  @ Road_Rebel's post |  #5

It doesn't sound like getting your name out there is the problem, you say you are getting calls all the time. The problem seems to be that you are not converting those enquiries into bookings. You say that you are losing them because you do not give out a disc with images, so the answer seems pretty obvious.

Discs with the images on are becoming part of the expected package these days and if you don't meet those expectations, they will go to somebody else who will. More and more photographers are building the image disc into their package and it isn't "free" in any more than name, you build it into your pricing structure.

If you want a higher conversion rate, from enquirer to client, you need to adapt to the modern market and supply a disc like other photographers are doing. That is what people want these days.




  
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Brandon72
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Nov 26, 2011 14:03 |  #6

Yup, the answer seems obvious. Just build it into one price package. People will at more if it's all inclusive as opposed to "extra" even if it works out to be the same price.




  
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jonathandavid
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Nov 26, 2011 16:38 |  #7

An included DVD is always more welcome than one that must be added as an "extra". I find with my wedding clients the same goes with an "included" engagement shoot... I've bundled one in my wedding packages and many clients feel that they've hit two birds with one stone and are getting the best value/service for their money (which unfortunately for many people these days, is what it comes down to!).


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blurry_image
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Nov 26, 2011 17:02 |  #8

Road_Rebel wrote in post #13454121 (external link)
whats your reason for not handing them the cd with the photos on? This is under the assumption that they've paid for the shoot already...


Maybe they only paid a sitting fee to cover time and talent of photographer ?

How many images are you putting on this free cd? If you shoot 200-300 images are you giving them all the images? Raw or jpgs? Are you going to edit every image or do something silly like give them unedited images that might make you look bad if they put them online? What usage do they get with the images on cd?

I am not being a dick, I really would like to know what you all do because once those images are gone so are lots of ways to make money off that client.

Personally I would never give away unedited images and I would not want to edit "stinker" images or those not worthy of printing/selling, you know? Too much time.


How much do you suggest he sells this cd with images for?


Interesting topic...


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goldboughtrue
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Nov 26, 2011 17:18 |  #9
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If the physical CD is the only obstacle can you raise your price $5 and include a free CD?


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sandpiper
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Nov 26, 2011 18:32 |  #10

blurry_image wrote in post #13454866 (external link)
Maybe they only paid a sitting fee to cover time and talent of photographer ?

How many images are you putting on this free cd? If you shoot 200-300 images are you giving them all the images? Raw or jpgs? Are you going to edit every image or do something silly like give them unedited images that might make you look bad if they put them online? What usage do they get with the images on cd?

I am not being a dick, I really would like to know what you all do because once those images are gone so are lots of ways to make money off that client.

Personally I would never give away unedited images and I would not want to edit "stinker" images or those not worthy of printing/selling, you know? Too much time.


How much do you suggest he sells this cd with images for?


Interesting topic...

Times are changing. Back when I was doing photography for an income (20 odd years ago) reprint orders were a big factor. Nowadays this is less so, and clients want digital images as that is how they tend to view them. This doesn't mean that they won't want a couple of prints to hang on the wall, but big reprint orders are not as common as they used to be.

You say that once the images are handed over on disc, so are lots of ways to make extra money from the client and I fully understand where you are coming from. However, as most clients want a disc these days, NOT offering a disc means that you will make nothing from them at all, as they will go to someone who does. You make up the difference by building the reprint order money into the package. I used to charge around £400 for a wedding and would expect to get around £250 - £400 in orders for reprints, duplicate albums etc. (remember this was a long time ago, that would be a lot more today). After paying for getting the reprints etc. done I would expect to make £200 plus in additional profit from a typical wedding.

Now, if I was offering a disc, I would assume that it would get copied and passed around, so relatives no longer need prints etc. However, I would simply charge (based still on those old prices) £600 for a wedding package to include an album and a disc. The disc would contain all the good images (the duplicates with blinks etc., or anything else I was unhappy with, would not be included). They wouldn't be at full resolution, they are intended for digital viewing so only need be sized for that, say 2000 pixels on the long side. I would also do a batch resize for facebook sized images to put on the web. I would do basic editing on them, but no retouching, that doesn't take too long to do, if you get things right at the shooting stage. OK, I would be unlikely to get a big reprint order, but that's OK as the profit that would have made was built into the package price, so I would still make the same profit. Naturally, the album shots would be fully retouched etc.

As I say, this is academic for me as I no longer shoot for money. I get the impression that most wedding photographers give about half the images on the disc, as jpegs with basic batch processing, and maybe a few individual tweaks done to odd shots. A studio session with the 200-300 shots you mention might result in 50-60 on the disc, as many will be near duplicates. You do not need to edit the bad shots, you simply bin them as always, nor do you need to give unedited images as you can quite quickly batch process for most of the work (assuming that your shooting was consistent).

Giving a disc isn't the ideal answer for many photographers, I am sure we would all like to hang onto all digital copies and just sell prints. However, the clients these days want discs and you have to provide what the client wants. If 4 out of 5 enquirers want a disc, you have the option of providing a disc and getting 5 clients or not providing a disc and getting one client. You would need one heck of a reprint order from that one client to cover the lost income from the four who went elsewhere.

As with many businesses, times change and you have to adapt or die.




  
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Nightstalker
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Nov 26, 2011 18:33 |  #11

Including a CD of images is fine if that is your business model and your session fees / packages generate sufficient income on their own.

Unfortunately many people are trying to maintain a business model based around print sales and when you give the images on CD you lose print sales.

Migrating from a print model to a CD based model is difficuly because either your up-front price goes up significantly to offset the loss in print sales income or you have to do lots more sesions at a lower fee to make the same money.

However it must be said that if selling prints is not working for you then you need to rethink how you are going to approach the market.


  
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Brandon72
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Nov 26, 2011 18:48 |  #12

blurry_image wrote in post #13454866 (external link)
Maybe they only paid a sitting fee to cover time and talent of photographer ?

They haven't paid for anything, because they're not booking him when they find out a CD isn't included.

So up your prices and include a CD. When people pay $300 for a session and then get told they get nothing unless they pay another $300 for a full CD of hi-res files from the session, they feel ripped off. Because while you see the value in the time and talent you're offering, unfortunately all others see is "I'm paying hundreds of dollars and not getting anything out of it unless I pay more afterwards."

I really would like to know what you all do because once those images are gone so are lots of ways to make money off that client.

If you aren't booking the clients to begin with because you aren't including any images in your fee, then all your ways of making money are gone.

No one can answer how much he (or anyone else) should sell them for. What he charges is based on his skills, the time spent overall on a job, what the client is being provided, his costs, etc. He needs to figure out how many jobs he can take, how much he needs to make a living and figure it out from there.

No, you don't offer every image from a shoot, and no, you don't offer them unedited, and no, you don't offer the RAWs. If you want to include a full CD then that means the images you deem worthy. If you want to offer only 10 edited images, then offer ten edited images. I have no problem editing them, because the cost of my time to do so is included in my fee.




  
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RDKirk
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Nov 26, 2011 19:06 |  #13

James504 wrote in post #13453566 (external link)
The clients i do have are few and far between, but they pay good money....I need more clients. What is a way to get my name out there?

I took out an advertisement on a local website that has over a quarter of a million views a week....i get calls all the time but i lose the clients when i tell them that they do not get a free Disc with Images on it.... Can any one help me get some more business?

So do you do weddings, portraits, interiors...what?

I have absolutely never had anyone ask me prior to booking if I provide a disk of my portrait work. I actually do provide a freebie disk of the the images purchased, but I've never had anyone ever ask about it. I do portraits, however, not weddings. My business portraits are always provided on disc only, but that's never come up, either.


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James504
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Nov 26, 2011 22:24 |  #14
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i have not read all the replies, very sorry I will when I get home.... IM not fond of handing over three edited images on a CD because usually my image sales go out the window. IM not a wallmart photog. I get paid for my time and talent, images sold separately. if a client chooses me I would hope its because of my work, not because I provide a free CD with all edited pictures.

I booked my least wedding by throwing in some free prints.... Maybe IM advertising to the wrong crowd.... The walmart crowd.....how do I get my name out to the macys crowd?

Thank you all for input so far......i will read more at home




  
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James504
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Nov 26, 2011 22:38 |  #15
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Road_Rebel wrote in post #13454121 (external link)
whats your reason for not handing them the cd with the photos on? This is under the assumption that they've paid for the shoot already...


print sales....if you or ANY one is "giving" the prints away then i feel (my opinion) that you are giving money away....lots of money to be made on prints...im not looking to make a fortune on prints but i am also not looking to hand them away either. I feel the way you make your business is the way you keep your business....years down the road i would like to sell albums and prints....possibly have the CD for sale but not included.

sandpiper wrote in post #13454169 (external link)
. The problem seems to be that you are not converting those enquiries into bookings.

i absolutely need to work on this....what is a good 'close' to use...

blurry_image wrote in post #13454866 (external link)
Maybe they only paid a sitting fee to cover time and talent of photographer ?

Bingo....

goldboughtrue wrote in post #13454906 (external link)
If the physical CD is the only obstacle can you raise your price $5 and include a free CD?

$5??? really?

RDKirk wrote in post #13455318 (external link)
So do you do weddings, portraits, interiors...what?

I have absolutely never had anyone ask me prior to booking if I provide a disk of my portrait work. I actually do provide a freebie disk of the the images purchased, but I've never had anyone ever ask about it. I do portraits, however, not weddings. My business portraits are always provided on disc only, but that's never come up, either.

sorry yes i am trying to steer in the direction of just weddings - bridals- engagements and such but yes i have done families and seniors in the past....

http://www.lnjphotogra​phy.net/ (external link)




  
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