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Tronhard wrote in post #19441206
The challenge for the Kakapo . . . Since there are so few of them, and they don't fly, it's hard for a male to find a mate.

Doesn't this misfortune afflict the female as well?

Straight on of a buck from the end of last year.

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OhLook wrote in post #19441221
Doesn't this misfortune afflict the female as well?

Well, since the male is the one who calls for and seeks out the female, the hard part is for them and they get quite flustered. The females respond to the males and that seems to engage them at that point.
I am not being misogynistic in an avian sense, if that is what you mean!

Tronhard wrote in post #19441341
I am not being misogynistic in an avian sense, if that is what you mean!

I wouldn't say misogynistic, but a certain asymmetry did jump out at me. In describing only the consequences for males, your description suggested something like a patriarchal assumption. Presumably nature gives both sexes a motivation to do what perpetuates their genes. If females don't at least make themselves available, a species won't survive. Consequently, a female Kakapo that wanders around her territory without finding a male might feel unfulfilled, or whatever you call the experience of an unmated bird. I'm glad to hear that your focus on the poor males was based on the birds' behavior.

OhLook wrote in post #19441348
I wouldn't say misogynistic, but a certain asymmetry did jump out at me. In describing only the consequences for males, your description suggested something like a patriarchal assumption. Presumably nature gives both sexes a motivation to do what perpetuates their genes. If females don't at least make themselves available, a species won't survive. Consequently, a female Kakapo that wanders around her territory without finding a male might feel unfulfilled, or whatever you call the experience of an unmated bird. I'm glad to hear that your focus on the poor males was based on the birds' behavior.

Certainly, this is asymmetrical but that has nothing to do with misogyny. Is to even consider that in such a context to anthropomorphise animal behaviour by mapping onto them our human sexual/emotional needs for fulfilment? I am all for equal gender rights and recognition for equal human rights, but in the wild, with other species, nature does not work that way.

I focus on the males because they do have the problem: in part, because of their natural behaviour combined with their critically low numbers. They are incredibly slow and infrequent breeders under the best conditions, but that would be countered by their normally long life spans of up to 90 years - and what was a high population density. Because they are subject to the population threats I outlined, those values now are rarely approached. They do not start to mate for at least five years and even then are dependent upon the Rimu bloom.

Part of the issue is that hey are unique in that they are Lek breeders: that is male Kakapo put on displays at fixed locations to attract female attention, and they don’t help to raise any offspring. No other New Zealand bird does it, and no other parrot species in the world is known to lek breed.

In breeding years, adult male Kakapo take to the stage in about December. Each male finds a prominent ridge, rock or hilltop with low-growing vegetation. Then he forms a track-and-bowl system: a network of tracks radiating from a shallow bowl-like depression in the earth.

The primary bowl usually has a clear area of ground around it and the neatly trimmed tracks connecting two or three additional bowls, but sometimes up to ten. Settled in his bowl, the male inflates his thoracic air sac. Then he emits a deep, low-frequency ‘boom’ every 1–2 seconds. It can be heard 300–400 m away on flat ground, or up to 5km away in the mountains.

After 20–30 booms he makes a high-pitched metallic ‘ching’. It helps any interested females pinpoint his position. His serenade can last for eight hours without any break, every night for two or three months.

My understanding is that the female mating instinct is triggered by hearing the booming noise. The issue is that the population density is so small that there may be no females within range to hear the noise, even though it carries quite a distance. Once they are alerted the females may be stimulated to respond. The low breeding frequency also explains why the females will not feel particularly lacking in fulfilment or stimulated until they hear the right booms.

Without a doubt some males are more successful than others, and choosy females have been known to walk right through one male's territory to get to their favourite male. However, that assumes a population density of sufficient magnitude. With 250 Kakapo scattered across literally hundreds of square km that can be a real challenge.

This is where DoC becomes involved. They are constantly monitoring the population and try to move males and females into close proximity for the mating season - but again that may not happen for years, depending upon the Rimu bloom. In the meantime, they have to contend with constant encroachment of threats to their survival.

Another rare species, but a different situation. The NZ Tuatara is unique in the world. It is a reptile that predates the dinosaurs - and has been traced back to 200 million years. Rather than write all about them, I shall give you a link to the NZ Dept of Conservation (DoC) web page:

https://www.doc.govt.n​z …ptiles-and-frogs/tuatara/

They are very shy creatures that can be hard to spot in the bush. We have some on the open scientific sanctuary of Tiritiri Matangi, where I am a volunteer.

In these photos, during the breeding season, the males can get extremely aggressive and violent, and one of the rangers was checking on one male's behaviour, so I tagged along. There were two females in proximity, but one of them was not around. The male was furiously pursuing the much smaller female, so we gave him some time in the 'naughty corner' to quote Attenborough to cool off, while the female recomposed herself and had the opportunity to make herself scarce - which she did not do. When the male was returned he went back to his old habits and the female sought sanctuary in a shallow pool where apparently the male was not comfortable to engage.

Tronhard wrote in post #19441373
I focus on the males because they have the problem, in part because of behaviour combined with their critically low numbers.

I also read Wikipedia's account of the lek behavior, and I still don't quite understand. Does the low population density force males to boom-and-ching longer than if more females reached them? Is their problem that their lek performance keeps them from foraging while it goes on? It seems to me that the low density would also be hard on females, which have to walk farther to get to males, just when their bodily resources should be conserved for egg production.

OhLook wrote in post #19441381
I also read Wikipedia's account of the lek behavior, and I still don't quite understand. Does the low population density force males to boom-and-ching longer than if more females reached them? Is their problem that their lek performance keeps them from foraging while it goes on? It seems to me that the low density would also be hard on females, which have to walk farther to get to males, just when their bodily resources should be conserved for egg production.

Lek behaviour is pretty rare, so your confusion is understandable. That, combined with the rather unique situation for Kakapo adds layers of complication.

1. Lek behaviour evolves in an environment where there are fairly dense populations - such as birds of paradise in New Guinea and surrounding islands. Thus, when the male wants to breed and start to sound, it would normally been heard by a decent population of females. Hearing the sound from the males is what stimulates the females to breed. From what I understand, if they don't hear the sounds, they are not particularly disturbed and just go on - because of 2...

2. In the case of Kakapo specifically, they have a very slow breeding cycle, in part because of their dependency on the Rata bloom, and because initially - before we humans turned up, there where huge numbers (in the millions) of them. Those factors meant that it was not advantageous for the females to breed frequently, so they do not necessarily have a cyclic breeding urge as many other animals do. Also, unlike their alpine relatives the Kea, they do not mate for life - so a male might breed with multiple females and also in reverse which allows for plenty of genetic diversity.

3. That was all going swimmingly well until humans turned up with predators - rats, stoats, cats dogs etc. and also ourselves predated on them directly as they provided easy pickings for fresh meat.

4. Thus, one of the fundamental requisites for a stable program were lost - namely population density. The issues of not being able to fly, and large heavy bodies, means that they are not going to cover large territories. So with a low population density, breeding rates collapsed as the population density collapsed while the birds could not adapt their other behaviours and dependencies.

I don't take gender sides in this situation. The situation is hard on both, which is why DoC has to take a very active role to try to rebalance what nature has lost. The males have been known to boom for months, always from the same spot - which is their natural behaviour. If there are no females in the area one could argue that it is the males go unfulfilled. Females do not travel huge distances either - the terrain is very rough and in dense bush.

So, DoC moves the females and males around to try to rebuild locally the conditions that will favour a situation to allow the breeding process to occur. But always there is the wildcard of the Rimu bloom and that is unpredictable. As I mentioned, signs of in-breeding and genetic degeneration occurred because of a lack of different breeding mates, hence DoC has a genetic profile for each bird, its breeding history and preferences for mates. They then try to move the birds around to create best possibility of a good mating outcome. Remember, they were down to only 50 individuals at one time, of which only a few were males.

I hope that helps to explain. It's a very unique situation and that is why we have biologists from all over the world come to study the situation.

Tronhard wrote in post #19441382
I don't take gender sides in this situation. The situation is hard on both, which is why DoC has to take a very active role to try to rebalance what nature has lost. The males have been known to boom for months, always from the same spot - which is their natural behaviour. If there are no females in the area one could argue that it is the males go unfulfilled.

Thanks for all the explanation. I'm actually not sure that what we're calling fulfillment applies to these birds. In natural conditions, they don't seem so keen on mating, unlike many mammals. I can't know their state of mind, but suppose that a good crop of the special flowers simply triggers in a male an impulse to go to an elevated spot, carve out his bowls and tracks, and start booming. Then, if a female shows up, they mate because they're together and their hormones are right for it. The female, similarly, may be drawn to his booming without consciously seeking out a male. "I was just going to a concert, and you won't believe what happened!" You've noted that unmated females don't show signs of sexual deprivation. Maybe they don't feel deprived. Maybe males don't, either.

So here's the remaining question. How is booming hard on males? Maybe it's strenuous, maybe it keeps them too busy to find food. But do they boom longer if females don't appear? These males are promiscuous, meaning that they needn't stop booming after one mating. They could keep going and perhaps attract another female.

How do we know that a low frequency of mating makes either sex suffer?

Wigeon

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drsilver wrote in post #19434174

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Love this shot.

I kept an eye on one of the last sections of my burning bush (euonymus alatus) that still had some leaves. It was in hopes of taking a photo of a cardinal .... so that I could tease Charles. I was going to say something to the effect of "the cardinals stay red by rubbing against the red leaves".
But, a cardinal never came. I had to settle for a common sparrow .... but I thought it was still worth posting !

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Peter2516 wrote in post #19437487

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That is a great picture.