5D2 vs. 7D - How I made my decision

Hello!

Given the number of threads, I though I'd add one... not asking you to spend my money for me, but instead how I decided.

Current situation: T2i with 18-55 and 55-250 kit lenses 10 months ago, Canon 430EXII 9 months ago, 6 months ago got the 50mm ƒ1.4, four months ago got the Tokina 100mm macro. About 3500 shutter actuations so far. I often walk around with my camera around Toronto, always with me when I go motorcycling to new places (every year go on a 4,000km+ trip) and to special events. I'm happy with my two prime lenses, almost never use the kit lenses anymore. I've become a 50mm advocate. The macro lens is my fancy schmancy gizmo.

In two weeks I'll come into a bit of money and decided to spend it on a body upgrade.

Disclaimer - I understand that:
- A body upgrade will not make me a better photographer
- The more expensive the toy, the more expensive the accessories
- The more expensive the toy, the more expensive the repairs
- The more expensive the toy, the more expensive the replacement

I looked at the specs of the 60D, but if I'm going to spend some money, I'd rather have a notable improvement rather than a small incremental one.

Why the upgrade:
1. Ergonomics. This is a big one for me. I'm 6'5" and have large hands. The T2i feels like a toy and I've trouble getting a good grip on it, especially when doing handheld macro work (which I really enjoy doing). This is a big factor for me. I'm willing to carry the extra weight (T2i 530g, 7D 820g, 5DII 907g) for this. When I hold the 7D and 5DII in stores, I don't want to let go.
2. ISO performance. I love ambient light photography and the flash is only for specific indoor use, portrait work. My T2i is capped at 1600 as anything more would require too much post processing (most of the time) for me to be happy. I keep wishing for better ISO performance. Just. One. More. Increment...
3. Ruggedness. When motorcycling (I've a little tank bag setup so it's always within reach and dampened from vibrations) or walking around town, I always have a plastic bag with me, just in case it rains. However I always fear that droplets of water will ruin my T2i. I'm probably being overly cautious, but this will give me peace of mind. Also, next year I plan on going further than I ever have on the motorcycle, somewhere with no one for 100km+ for days on end, and want peace of mind. Don't get me wrong, the T2i has proved faithful, but it's my first DSLR and I'm used to old-school 35mm film SLRs and I miss their solid build.
4. Prestige. I've recently started a media freelancing business that has a strong photography component. At one point I visited a client to take product pictures. They were vocally disappointed that I "only" had a Rebel-series body. This is nothing but marketing, but something I feel is important (you may feel otherwise, but this is my post and I'll cry if I want to) and factored into my decision.

7D Pros (to me):
- Lightning-fast processing including 8FPS burst mode.
- ASP-C sensor is a benefit for macro work (1.6x FTW!)
- Has an electronic level display (I still sometimes don't frame the picture precisely, and this is something I've wished the T2i had)

7D Cons:
- Notable financial upgrade to a camera with the same sensor
- 99% of the time I use centre-point AF only and reframe the picture, the 7D's fancy AF system would be lost on me

5DII Pros:
- Better ISO performance
- Full frame for slightly (I said slightly) better IQ
- FF is a benefit to landscape/urban photography

5DII Cons:
- More expensive
- Older technology and its replacement(s?) (late 2012? 2013?) is likely to shatter the current model and lead to renewed hardware envy

So, after looking at it, the only thing the 7D really offers me is the 1.6x magnification for macro work. I can always crop the image in post processing. Everything else points to the 5D. I won't miss the kit EF-S lenses, though the next item on my list will be a wide angle lens in the future.

Do I need the upgrade? No. But I am in a position where I can treat myself and resolve some of the concerns that have made me frown with the T2i (many of them personal and not technical). Put it this way. It's a 5DII or a new couch. I'm trying to spend less time on the couch. Two birds. One stone.

When I've confirmed that my bonus is what I hope it will be, the T2i and kit lenses will be on sale to help with the change and I'll plunge further into photography.

For what it is worth I would have made the same choice.

Laouik wrote in post #13463680
Hello!


I looked at the specs of the 60D, but if I'm going to spend some money, I'd rather have a notable improvement rather than a small incremental one.

The 60D is not really a small incremental upgrade, and since, as you said, you just use Center Point, I'd actually think it would be be a strong contender vs the 7D for you. Also the swivel screen is killer for macro work close to the ground or at strange angles.

I'm your height and find the 60D is a good fit. IMHO a 60D body, which during the holidays I've seen for around $800 and then drop the difference on some nice glass might yield a more functional package for your type of photography, but if you are set on Full Frame I can't blame you there either, the 5D II is an impressive camera.

Keyan wrote in post #13463740
The 60D is not really a small incremental upgrade, and since, as you said, you just use Center Point, I'd actually think it would be be a strong contender vs the 7D for you. Also the swivel screen is killer for macro work close to the ground or at strange angles.

I'm your height and find the 60D is a good fit. IMHO a 60D body, which during the holidays I've seen for around $800 and then drop the difference on some nice glass might yield a more functional package for your type of photography, but if you are set on Full Frame I can't blame you there either, the 5D II is an impressive camera.

I did not mean to be dismissive of the 60D in any way. It's a great camera and I almost got it instead of the T2i in January of this year. However, I have the means to reach as high as a 7D or 5DII right now. That's all!

I made the same move(t2i-7d),the one thing I can say is don't expect an ISO performance increase unless you mean that the 7d can simply go higher.At the same ISO levels there is no difference between these two bodies.Other than that I think your assumptions are are on the right track,the 7d will feel much better in your mitts!

"Put it this way. It's a 5DII or a new couch. I'm trying to spend less time on the couch. Two birds. One stone."

Hahaha...nice.

For what you're doing it sounds like the 5D is a great choice. Enjoy your new treat!

Laouik wrote in post #13463680
Hello!

Given the number of threads, I though I'd add one... not asking you to spend my money for me, but instead how I decided.

Current situation: T2i with 18-55 and 55-250 kit lenses 10 months ago, Canon 430EXII 9 months ago, 6 months ago got the 50mm ƒ1.4, four months ago got the Tokina 100mm macro. About 3500 shutter actuations so far. I often walk around with my camera around Toronto, always with me when I go motorcycling to new places (every year go on a 4,000km+ trip) and to special events. I'm happy with my two prime lenses, almost never use the kit lenses anymore. I've become a 50mm advocate. The macro lens is my fancy schmancy gizmo.

In two weeks I'll come into a bit of money and decided to spend it on a body upgrade.

Disclaimer - I understand that:
- A body upgrade will not make me a better photographer
- The more expensive the toy, the more expensive the accessories
- The more expensive the toy, the more expensive the repairs
- The more expensive the toy, the more expensive the replacement

I looked at the specs of the 60D, but if I'm going to spend some money, I'd rather have a notable improvement rather than a small incremental one.

Why the upgrade:
1. Ergonomics. This is a big one for me. I'm 6'5" and have large hands. The T2i feels like a toy and I've trouble getting a good grip on it, especially when doing handheld macro work (which I really enjoy doing). This is a big factor for me. I'm willing to carry the extra weight (T2i 530g, 7D 820g, 5DII 907g) for this. When I hold the 7D and 5DII in stores, I don't want to let go.
2. ISO performance. I love ambient light photography and the flash is only for specific indoor use, portrait work. My T2i is capped at 1600 as anything more would require too much post processing (most of the time) for me to be happy. I keep wishing for better ISO performance. Just. One. More. Increment...
3. Ruggedness. When motorcycling (I've a little tank bag setup so it's always within reach and dampened from vibrations) or walking around town, I always have a plastic bag with me, just in case it rains. However I always fear that droplets of water will ruin my T2i. I'm probably being overly cautious, but this will give me peace of mind. Also, next year I plan on going further than I ever have on the motorcycle, somewhere with no one for 100km+ for days on end, and want peace of mind. Don't get me wrong, the T2i has proved faithful, but it's my first DSLR and I'm used to old-school 35mm film SLRs and I miss their solid build.
4. Prestige. I've recently started a media freelancing business that has a strong photography component. At one point I visited a client to take product pictures. They were vocally disappointed that I "only" had a Rebel-series body. This is nothing but marketing, but something I feel is important (you may feel otherwise, but this is my post and I'll cry if I want to) and factored into my decision.

7D Pros (to me):
- Lightning-fast processing including 8FPS burst mode.
- ASP-C sensor is a benefit for macro work (1.6x FTW!)
- Has an electronic level display (I still sometimes don't frame the picture precisely, and this is something I've wished the T2i had)

7D Cons:
- Notable financial upgrade to a camera with the same sensor
- 99% of the time I use centre-point AF only and reframe the picture, the 7D's fancy AF system would be lost on me

5DII Pros:
- Better ISO performance
- Full frame for slightly (I said slightly) better IQ
- FF is a benefit to landscape/urban photography

5DII Cons:
- More expensive
- Older technology and its replacement(s?) (late 2012? 2013?) is likely to shatter the current model and lead to renewed hardware envy

So, after looking at it, the only thing the 7D really offers me is the 1.6x magnification for macro work. I can always crop the image in post processing. Everything else points to the 5D. I won't miss the kit EF-S lenses, though the next item on my list will be a wide angle lens in the future.

Do I need the upgrade? No. But I am in a position where I can treat myself and resolve some of the concerns that have made me frown with the T2i (many of them personal and not technical). Put it this way. It's a 5DII or a new couch. I'm trying to spend less time on the couch. Two birds. One stone.

When I've confirmed that my bonus is what I hope it will be, the T2i and kit lenses will be on sale to help with the change and I'll plunge further into photography.

I hate to say this, but you just described your need for a 1d or 1ds series, not a 5d.

The 1d series are weather sealed versus 5d MII weather resistant.
The 1d series are focusing monsters with any of their focus points.
The 1d series with the exception of the 1d/1ds classics are perform very well at higher ISO.
The 1d/1ds series will fit in large hands like nothing else will.

If you want to impress people with your camera and I mean even 5D MII owners, show up with a 1d series camera.

Note: Only your pics will keep others impressed so be forewarned.

Thorrulz wrote in post #13463918
I hate to say this, but you just described your need for a 1d or 1ds series, not a 5d.

The 1d series are weather sealed versus 5d MII weather resistant.
The 1d series are focusing monsters with any of their focus points.
The 1d series with the exception of the 1d/1ds classics are perform very well at higher ISO.
The 1d/1ds series will fit in large hands like nothing else will.

If you want to impress people with your camera and I mean even 5D MII owners, show up with a 1d series camera.

Note: Only your pics will keep others impressed so be forewarned.

Late important addition - budget. I have about $2500 to spend. In Canada, the 5DII is $1,999 plus 13% tax.

If this is the extent of your time behind a camera, I'm not sure that the gear is what's holding you back. You may want to invest a little more time than money into your new photography career.

I hope you enjoy your new camera, but it looks like you're working hard to convince yourself that you did the right thing. #1 and #4 are true on your disclaimer, but the repairs and accessories cost the same regardless of camera model. As far as your reasons for upgrading -

1. Ergonomics - you knew the size of the camera and your hands before the purchase, right?
2. ISO performance - sorry, but I get excellent results with high ISO from older crop cameras than this. It is easily done with good technique and processing.
3. Ruggedness - you knew that you were a motorcycle rider and the camera was plastic before the purchase didn't you?
4. Prestige - anyone who is disappointed that you are using a Rebel but doesn't care that you don't have any decent lenses to go along with it probably isn't worth impressing in the first place.

Then you should have spent that $2000 on lenses instead. It's not too late if you haven't spent the money yet. Buy used gear and get more for your money. You could get a 50D or 5Dc and two or three high quality lenses for that same amount of money. This wouldn't satisfy your need to show people that you have the latest gear, but it would do wonders for your image quality, and that is what will ultimately make your photography business succeed.

Also, see here: https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1117888

Laouik wrote in post #13463930
Late important addition - budget. I have about $2500 to spend. In Canada, the 5DII is $1,999 plus 13% tax.

1D MIII or 1ds MII used go for $1800-$2300 here and at adorama/b&h photo all the time.

Thank you for the thorough input! I've not purchased it yet.

Mark-B wrote in post #13463966
If this is the extent of your time behind a camera, I'm not sure that the gear is what's holding you back. You may want to invest a little more time than money into your new photography career.

Extent behind a DSLR. I used to be quite into my 35mm SLR until it got stolen five years ago. The only thing the battery powered was the needle light meter.

Mark-B wrote in post #13463966
I hope you enjoy your new camera, but it looks like you're working hard to convince yourself that you did the right thing. #1 and #4 are true on your disclaimer, but the repairs and accessories cost the same regardless of camera model.

Batteries, 5D-specific accessories, CF cards are more expensive than what there is for the T2i.

1. Yes. But I had a budget at the time and wanted to see how much I'd use it before really forking out thousands.
2. I acknowledged post processing in my post. I prefer getting it from the camera.
3. Yep. See 1 (my you're a negative Nellie!)
4. I expressed in my post that others may disapprove/refute that claim. I stand by it.

The business is additional to my enjoyment of photography. The enjoyment comes first.

Good thing this is my decision!

Thorrulz wrote in post #13463988
1D MIII or 1ds MII used go for $1800-$2300 here and at adorama/b&h photo all the time.

Stop making good points! :P

I'll look into it. This is why I like posting on here, getting ideas/options I was incapable of establishing myself.

5d2 all the way. The MK3 is a long way off and the MK2 is not going to become a paper weight anytime soon! You won't be on the couch much with a 5d anyway

Laouik wrote in post #13463680
7D Cons:
- Notable financial upgrade to a camera with the same sensor
- 99% of the time I use centre-point AF only and reframe the picture, the 7D's fancy AF system would be lost on me

Is that because the T2i only has one cross type and does not have af group modes? The 7D has adjustable af settings which are very helpful. Plus it has different af modes like the group modes which can be great for tracking fast moving objects without having to keep a single point on it. Lastly even if you use only the center af, the ai servo tracking will be far superior assuming your lenses are up to it.

I guess what I am getting at is are you only using the center af point on the T2i because the other ones suck or do you truly only need the center one?

themadman wrote in post #13464049
Is that because the T2i only has one cross type and does not have af group modes? The 7D has adjustable af settings which are very helpful. Plus it has different af modes like the group modes which can be great for tracking fast moving objects without having to keep a single point on it. Lastly even if you use only the center af, the ai servo tracking will be far superior assuming your lenses are up to it.

I guess what I am getting at is are you only using the center af point on the T2i because the other ones suck or do you truly only need the center one?

Those are good points.

I use the centre point ecause it seems to make an effort to lock on to what I don't want it to lock on to. Using the centre one and then reframing has served me very well... and I like knowing I made the decision in the AF.

Granted, this is always tricky with the 50mm open at ƒ1.4, but I've not had much concern so far.