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Thread started 03 Dec 2011 (Saturday) 11:02
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L Lens Delima Please Help Me Decide

 
Mudhog79
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Dec 03, 2011 11:02 |  #1

Updated: See my post 28 in this thread on page 2

Ok,

Here is my situation. I am looking to upgrade to m first "L" lens (after reading many comments i am also considering quality EF-S lenses). I am not anywhere near professional but i want a good quality lens. I currently have a Canon EOS XSi but in a few years i plan on getting a full frame camera (maybe as many here think it might not be worth the money) .

Right now i have the EFS 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS kit lens, a EFS 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS, and a EF 50 f/1.4. I love the sharp photos that the 50mm prime takes.

Really all i shoot right now are pictures of our new baby girl but i do like to go out in the wood or when on vacation and take nature photos. I would like to have something that could be a good walk around lens but also be good for indoors taking pictures of my little girl. You can click on my flickr link below if you care to see what i tend to shoot.

So my search has brought me to the EF 16-35mm f/2.8L II USM, the EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM. I have also see that the EF 17-40mm f/4L is a good "Cheaper" lens. I am also considering the Sigma or Canon 10-22 mm, and the Sigma or Canon 17-55mm. Can you please give me some suggestions to help me decide which lens to get? These are all within my budget but still a significant investment for me.

Thanks


Canon EOS 7D Mark II, EFS 55-250mm IS, EF 50mm f/1.4, EFS 17-55 mm f/2.8 IS, 430 EXII Speedlite, Fiesol 3441T, Photo Clam PC-40NS
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JeffreyG
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Dec 03, 2011 11:12 |  #2

I think you might want to reconsider your avoidance of EF-S (or third party 1.6X specific lenses) if you are really looking for a fast wide angle zoom. There are several good choices that you should at least have in the running so you know what you are comparing too.

Honestly, 'a couple of years' is way out there for a possible move to FF, and considering how well lenses hold value, selling off an EF-S lens in the future is economical. This is especially true since you might want to sell off some of your L series lenses at such a time anyway.

For example, let's say you buy the rather expensive EF 16-35/2.8L II as you are considering. This is a reasonable choice as a wide angle zoom on 1.6X, though the long end is kind of short and there is no IS.

In a couple years you get a FF camera. Well, now your 16-35 is an ultra-wide angle zoom, not a standard wide angle. At that point you might still need a different lens for the range you used to use the 16-35 for, and you might decide you don't care for having an ultra wide at all. So then you sell off the 16-35 anyway.

And in the interim, you used a lens that maybe didn't have the best match of features for what you were looking at.

So back on topic:
16-35/2.8L II - Very sharp, fast. Limited zoom range and very expensive.

17-40L - Similar to the above, one stop slower and a lot more affordable. Both of these lenses are nice choices for dedicated landscape shooters on 1.6X because they are more flare resistant than most of the EF-S options such as the 17-55IS.

24-70 - Big and heavy, plus no IS. The biggest thing to worry about with this lens (and the 24-105) is whether or not you can tolerate having 24mm as your widest available focal length. That is not very wide on 1.6X for a lot of people.

One other path to think about would be to keep the 18-55 and 55-250 for when you are shooting stopped down stuff (both lenses are very good at f/8 for example) and just adding a prime or two and focal lengths where you would be most likely to need a fast aperture.


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Mudhog79
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Dec 03, 2011 11:25 |  #3

Jefffery,

Thanks for the info and the tip on not ruling out the EF-S lines. Two EF-S lens that i was originally thinking about was the 10-22mm and the 17-55mm. I keep thinking about how economical the EF 17-40mm f/4L is though compared to the 16-35mm f/2.8L. My friend currently has the EF 17-40mm f/2.4L and is looking to get the 24-70mm f/2.8L so i might have to borrow both of these to see how i like them.

JeffreyG wrote in post #13488984 (external link)
I think you might want to reconsider your avoidance of EF-S (or third party 1.6X specific lenses) if you are really looking for a fast wide angle zoom. There are several good choices that you should at least have in the running so you know what you are comparing too.

Honestly, 'a couple of years' is way out there for a possible move to FF, and considering how well lenses hold value, selling off an EF-S lens in the future is economical. This is especially true since you might want to sell off some of your L series lenses at such a time anyway.

For example, let's say you buy the rather expensive EF 16-35/2.8L II as you are considering. This is a reasonable choice as a wide angle zoom on 1.6X, though the long end is kind of short and there is no IS.

In a couple years you get a FF camera. Well, now your 16-35 is an ultra-wide angle zoom, not a standard wide angle. At that point you might still need a different lens for the range you used to use the 16-35 for, and you might decide you don't care for having an ultra wide at all. So then you sell off the 16-35 anyway.

And in the interim, you used a lens that maybe didn't have the best match of features for what you were looking at.

So back on topic:
16-35/2.8L II - Very sharp, fast. Limited zoom range and very expensive.

17-40L - Similar to the above, one stop slower and a lot more affordable. Both of these lenses are nice choices for dedicated landscape shooters on 1.6X because they are more flare resistant than most of the EF-S options such as the 17-55IS.

24-70 - Big and heavy, plus no IS. The biggest thing to worry about with this lens (and the 24-105) is whether or not you can tolerate having 24mm as your widest available focal length. That is not very wide on 1.6X for a lot of people.

One other path to think about would be to keep the 18-55 and 55-250 for when you are shooting stopped down stuff (both lenses are very good at f/8 for example) and just adding a prime or two and focal lengths where you would be most likely to need a fast aperture.


Canon EOS 7D Mark II, EFS 55-250mm IS, EF 50mm f/1.4, EFS 17-55 mm f/2.8 IS, 430 EXII Speedlite, Fiesol 3441T, Photo Clam PC-40NS
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bigland
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Dec 03, 2011 11:31 as a reply to  @ Mudhog79's post |  #4

Just a thought, but have you considered the Sigma 30? I started out with a crop camera and eventually ended up with the 17-55 and Sigma 30 and they made an absolutely stunning combo. The 17-55 for walk around and the Sigma 30 for indoors shots. When I sold them, I took a minimum loss.

Even though I have moved to Full Frame, I don't don't regret buying crop lenses as they suited my needs perfectly at the time. All the lenses you have mentioned have great reputations, but I am a big advocate of the lenses I mentioned on a crop camera.


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ni$mo350
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Dec 03, 2011 11:34 |  #5

I don't know why people always have the thought to make the jump to FF when they've never even shot with good glass before.. Anyways, I second the vote for sticking with EF-S lenses. Toking 11-16, Sigma 10-20, or the 17-55 2.8 or Tamron 17-50 will work great.


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Mudhog79
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Dec 03, 2011 12:22 as a reply to  @ Mudhog79's post |  #6

Jeffery,

Do you have a EF-S in mind that you would recommend i add to the list that will give sharp images and fit as a "Walk Around" type lens?

Thanks


Canon EOS 7D Mark II, EFS 55-250mm IS, EF 50mm f/1.4, EFS 17-55 mm f/2.8 IS, 430 EXII Speedlite, Fiesol 3441T, Photo Clam PC-40NS
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Mudhog79
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Dec 03, 2011 12:33 |  #7

Thanks bigland i will dig into these.

bigland wrote in post #13489055 (external link)
Just a thought, but have you considered the Sigma 30? I started out with a crop camera and eventually ended up with the 17-55 and Sigma 30 and they made an absolutely stunning combo. The 17-55 for walk around and the Sigma 30 for indoors shots. When I sold them, I took a minimum loss.

Even though I have moved to Full Frame, I don't don't regret buying crop lenses as they suited my needs perfectly at the time. All the lenses you have mentioned have great reputations, but I am a big advocate of the lenses I mentioned on a crop camera.


Canon EOS 7D Mark II, EFS 55-250mm IS, EF 50mm f/1.4, EFS 17-55 mm f/2.8 IS, 430 EXII Speedlite, Fiesol 3441T, Photo Clam PC-40NS
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Mudhog79
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Dec 03, 2011 12:35 |  #8

ni$mo350,

As you will see i am trying to get "Good" glass to use prior to going with a FF camera. As i said in a couple years it may be an option so that is why i was wanting to go with an EF lens Vs. what i thought would be a wast on getting a high dollar EFS lens that i couldnt use in the future if and when i went FF. I appreciate you offering some other suggestions on lenses that i can look into though that would work well on the 1.6 crop camera that i currently have.

Thanks

ni$mo350 wrote in post #13489069 (external link)
I don't know why people always have the thought to make the jump to FF when they've never even shot with good glass before.. Anyways, I second the vote for sticking with EF-S lenses. Toking 11-16, Sigma 10-20, or the 17-55 2.8 or Tamron 17-50 will work great.


Canon EOS 7D Mark II, EFS 55-250mm IS, EF 50mm f/1.4, EFS 17-55 mm f/2.8 IS, 430 EXII Speedlite, Fiesol 3441T, Photo Clam PC-40NS
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Dec 03, 2011 12:41 |  #9

I'd recommend the 24-105 f/4 L as it has a good Walkabout range and is way cheaper second hand than the 24-70 f/2.8 if you can live without the extra apeture stop.

Although the 24 on your crop is narrower than you have at the moment it will be wider once you go full frame as your 18mm will be roughly 28mm equivalent


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Dec 03, 2011 14:29 |  #10

Mudhog79 wrote in post #13489031 (external link)
Jefffery,

Thanks for the info and the tip on not ruling out the EF-S lines. Two EF-S lens that i was originally thinking about was the 10-22mm and the 17-55mm. I keep thinking about how economical the EF 17-40mm f/4L is though compared to the 16-35mm f/2.8L. My friend currently has the EF 17-40mm f/2.4L and is looking to get the 24-70mm f/2.8L so i might have to borrow both of these to see how i like them.

Just FYI - I had the 17-40 L and sold it to buy an EF-S 17-55 f2.8. I think that I get sharper images with the new lens than I ever managed with the "L" glass. That isn't a knock on the 17-40, but it was designed for a full frame sensor while the 17-55 is designed for a 1.6 crop sensor. I absolutely love the 17-55, - it's on my T1i more than anything else now, even the 70-200 f4 L IS. A shot with it from last week on the beach in the Bahamas:

IMAGE: http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss196/priebra/PSE%20Tech/beachwalkvintcopy.jpg

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Dec 03, 2011 14:38 |  #11

Tokina 11-16 for wide angle fast indoor/ outdoor lens and/ or a 200 2.8L... Both can be had used around 550-600 and would hold their value well. 200 is a nice walk around nature lens that is fast, Sharp and very light weight. It also is perfect playground lens to catch your kids at play. It also works very well with a teleconverter.


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Mudhog79
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Dec 03, 2011 14:47 as a reply to  @ Preeb's post |  #12

Thanks Preeb,


All
I guess what im getting hung up on is what is the advantage to sticking with say an EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 if it is around $1,000 vs. going with an EF 16-35 f/2.8L if it is only $300 more. Im all for saving money but i guess im just hung up on the "L" being better quality. I clearly dont know everything that is why im looking for advice here before spending this kind of money. Is it that the EF-S lens were built with crop sensor in mind and therefore take better quality images on cropped cameras?

Thanks to everyone for their input.


Canon EOS 7D Mark II, EFS 55-250mm IS, EF 50mm f/1.4, EFS 17-55 mm f/2.8 IS, 430 EXII Speedlite, Fiesol 3441T, Photo Clam PC-40NS
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amfoto1
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Dec 03, 2011 16:02 |  #13

An "L" is not necessarily "better" glass. Depends upon how you define "better". Some "lesser" lenses can match or come darn close to the IQ.... most will not be sealed as well or have the heftier metal construction so may not be as durable, but also won't be as heavy and might balance better on an XSi.

By definition, no EF-S lens can ever be an L. Canon defines an L series lens as:

1. Must be top quality sesign, materials and build (sort of subjective criteria there).
2. Must use "exotic" glass (fluorite or ED, UD, aspherical, etc.)
3. Must be fully compatible with all EOS cameras past, present, and future.

The last one is the problem... EF-S lenses are only usable on 1.6X crop cameras beginning with the DRebel and 20D or later. So no EF-S lens will ever get a red stripe painted on it or the L designation, unless Canon changes their criteria.

I really wouldn't worry about buying an EF-S lens now, if a FF camera is a "couple years in the future". You can always sell the lens later... Probably won't see much depreciation, might even make money on it. I have several lenses in my kit that I could sell for significantly more now, than I paid for them used a few years ago.

Besides, why do you want a FF camera? All things considered, for a lot of folks, there's limited reason to get one these days.... crop cameras are close to matching the IQ and are just going to keep getting better.... and are cheaper, lighter, smaller and in many cases allow you to use cheaper, lighter, smaller lenses.

Do yourself a favor and check out this review of the 17-55mm (external link). Note that it uses 3 aspherical and 2 UD elements. For comparison, I know the 16-35/2.8 uses 3 aspherical, am not sure how many UD. Yes, the L-series is better sealed against dust and such... and it's made of more metal, less plastic... but it's bigger and heavier, has considerably less focal length range. Note in the review, that the 17-55 is "considerably" sharper in the corners and edges, too.

The 17-55 would be a considerable upgrade to your 18-55... especially if that's the earlier non-IS model of the kit lens.

You've already got a great portrait, low light lens in the 50/1.4. If you need wider or longer, add a 28/1.8 or 85/1.8 (or Sigma 30/1.4, 85/1.4 if you want heavier, more expensive lenses).

If you need wider, Canon 10-22 or Tokina 12-24 are good choices. I think the Tokina is one of the best values... it's very "L-like", yet it's about $100 US cheaper than the 11-16/2.8 and around $300 US cheaper than the Canon. The Canon slightly edges it out for flare control. Neither of these lenses are particularly fast... But, honestly, you are far more likely to be stopping down a wide angle lens, than needing f2.8 on it.

If you get these, I have a suspicion you'll be looking at a 70-200/4 or even f2.8 to replace the 55-250!


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DreDaze
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Dec 03, 2011 16:22 |  #14

17-55IS...a few years is a long time...why limit yourself...get the best thing for your camera body that you have now


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aaxsherm
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Dec 03, 2011 16:39 as a reply to  @ amfoto1's post |  #15

I started with a 28-135 kit lens....28mm was never wide enough with my 40D or now the same on my 7D. With the hope that I would get a FF camera at some point I overlooked the 17-55 and moved to a 24-70mm. I am happy with the 24-70 as a general walk around (although heavy) lens, I still wanted wider at times. I also thought if I had the 17-55, I would not be as happy not having the reach.

To compliment the 24-70, I eventually purchased a 10-22mm....I love the combination. I also enjoy the 7D so much...I do not see any reason to go to FF at this point. My problem now is I want more prime lenses.

I agree with the comments that it does not need to be a "L" to be good glass, the 10-22 is great! Here is one of my favorites.


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7D l 5D MKII l 10-22 l 24-70 L l 85 1.2 L II l 135 L l 70-200 F4 IS L

  
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