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Thread started 11 Dec 2011 (Sunday) 10:48
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Bazinga
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Dec 11, 2011 10:48 |  #1

Sorry in advance for the semi-long post.

I've been in the market for some upgrades since joining (my reason for joining) and I have bounced around from ditching my 60D and 15-85 altogether for a 5D2 and 24-105 to just adding some L glass to my 60D. I have scoured the forums, listened to your advice and have made some decisions solely based on the great advice here.

1. I'm sticking with my 60D and 15-85. I have nowhere near mastered anything about this setup. I fell victim to thinking that better equipment = better pictures. I am going to master my current camera before even considering full frame. My current camera and lens is more than "good enough" and many would love to have this combo.

2. I came here looking for faster glass and read a lot of advice saying "get a flash, it will help tremendously". I chose to say Nah, I want L glass! I've decided to listen to the masses and get a 580EX II. It will open many options for me and my 60D/15-85. I read many threads in the lighting forum that have convinced me this is a great option and a must have for EVERYONE (well an external flash in general).

3. I'm buying a tripod. I've been in photography way too long to have never owned a tripod. I'll be getting something decent that will be with me for a long time.

4. I am giving my nephew my 50mm 1.8 for Christmas. I'm going to add a prime to my collection. I'm considering the Canon 50mm 1.4 and the Sigma 30mm 1.4. This is the reason I posted all this in this forum. What prime in that price point would you recommend?

All these options COMBINED are going to cost me less than 1 good L lens and I think it will open up my photography much more than 1 L lens could ever do. I figure this will all cost me about $1000.

Thank you all for the advice and it took some time but, I've finally got it through my thick skull that buying the latest and greatest and most expensive is not the best. I needed to fill some basic needs and that's what I'm doing before I consider L glass or a full frame camera.

I will remain active in these forums but I'm going to get out there and shoot and stop worrying about what to get next and master what I already have.




  
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PaulB
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Dec 11, 2011 10:57 |  #2

Very good post.
Your reasoning about gear is impeccable, buying the latest and greatest and most expensive won't teach you photography and how to 'see' a picture; only taking pictures will do that.
Take lots of images, learn from your mistakes, read lots, look at other photographers work.




  
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snyderman
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Dec 11, 2011 11:07 |  #3

Finally, some rational thought regarding an upgrade.

Flash, check. Tripod, check. Good investments. Might want to spend a scant few dollars on a remote actuation device. I always use it when the camera is on the tripod. Wired version plugs into camera, actuator button on remote device. Think I bought mine here at POTN for around $20.

Another inexpensive 'upgrade' is something like a Whi-Bal card. Use it in an image to act as your white balance corrector on shots. Again, around a $20-30 investment that represents a good 'bang-for-the-buck' purchase.

dave


Canon 5D2 > 35L-85L-135L

  
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Bazinga
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Dec 11, 2011 11:12 |  #4

snyderman wrote in post #13527005 (external link)
Finally, some rational thought regarding an upgrade.

Flash, check. Tripod, check. Good investments. Might want to spend a scant few dollars on a remote actuation device. I always use it when the camera is on the tripod. Wired version plugs into camera, actuator button on remote device. Think I bought mine here at POTN for around $20.

Another inexpensive 'upgrade' is something like a Whi-Bal card. Use it in an image to act as your white balance corrector on shots. Again, around a $20-30 investment that represents a good 'bang-for-the-buck' purchase.

dave

I have the Canon wired remote shutter release already but I'll definitely look into the white balance card. Thanks for the suggestions.




  
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I ­ weston ­ I
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Dec 11, 2011 11:13 |  #5

Something a lot of people think is that they need shallow DoF for their shots to improve, so they throw all their money on fast lenses and full frame bodies. Then come back to start threads like, nothing special about a 5D, post oof pictures and poorly composed shots complaining their camera didn't take the picture for them. Great thinking in not going with this trend!


Nikon D7000, Nikon D3100 18-105mm VR, 35mm f/1.8, 50mm f/1.4, 70-300mm VR

  
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kf095
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Dec 11, 2011 11:16 as a reply to  @ snyderman's post |  #6

Wise move, with good flashlight you'll achieve more.
For single prime on 60d I would recommend 30 1.4, it is much more universal compare to 50mm prime.


M-E and ME blog (external link). Flickr (external link). my DigitaL and AnaLog Gear.

  
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paddler4
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Dec 11, 2011 11:26 |  #7

Very good post and good decisions.

I second the recommendation of a WhiBal. I consider it an essential. Also a nice way to break the ice when you are taking candid shots with flash. for candids of people, have someone hold one while you take a few shots.

A few other cheap things: a sto-fen omni-bounce diffuser for your flash (about $15) and a good bounce card (I like the standard-size Demb Flip-It, which is about $30--google it).

Re tripods: picking one is a nightmare, because there are so many options. Resist the advice that you can't possible make do with anything but the most expensive. "Decent" was the right word. Carefully read up on what features you want, and then start zeroing in on mid-level equipment that has those features.


Check out my photos at http://dkoretz.smugmug​.com (external link)

  
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Bazinga
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Dec 11, 2011 11:30 |  #8

paddler4 wrote in post #13527068 (external link)
Very good post and good decisions.

I second the recommendation of a WhiBal. I consider it an essential. Also a nice way to break the ice when you are taking candid shots with flash. for candids of people, have someone hold one while you take a few shots.

A few other cheap things: a sto-fen omni-bounce diffuser for your flash (about $15) and a good bounce card (I like the standard-size Demb Flip-It, which is about $30--google it).

Re tripods: picking one is a nightmare, because there are so many options. Resist the advice that you can't possible make do with anything but the most expensive. "Decent" was the right word. Carefully read up on what features you want, and then start zeroing in on mid-level equipment that has those features.

Yeah the whole tripod thing is a bit daunting but I actually did some research awhile back and still have the model of the items I want. I just posted in the accessories forum so let's see if I get told it's junk or not :lol: It's a $250 setup so we shall see.

I'll definitely pickup a whibal card and a sto-fen diffuser. Found one on amazon for cheap.




  
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amfoto1
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Dec 11, 2011 11:52 |  #9

Bazinga wrote in post #13526930 (external link)
I've been in the market for some upgrades since joining (my reason for joining) and I have bounced around from ditching my 60D and 15-85 altogether for a 5D2 and 24-105 to just adding some L glass to my 60D. I have scoured the forums, listened to your advice and have made some decisions solely based on the great advice here.

Well, don't solely base your decision on the advice here! ;)

1. I'm sticking with my 60D and 15-85. I have nowhere near mastered anything about this setup. I fell victim to thinking that better equipment = better pictures. I am going to master my current camera before even considering full frame. My current camera and lens is more than "good enough" and many would love to have this combo.

This is wise. The 60D and 15-85 are both quite capable and many people are way too quick to "upgrade" thinking they are going to get better results, but never really learn to get the best out of what they've got.

2. I came here looking for faster glass and read a lot of advice saying "get a flash, it will help tremendously". I chose to say Nah, I want L glass! I've decided to listen to the masses and get a 580EX II. It will open many options for me and my 60D/15-85. I read many threads in the lighting forum that have convinced me this is a great option and a must have for EVERYONE (well an external flash in general).

A flash isn't necessarily the be all and end all for everyone. There's a whole school of photography that only shoots by available light.

OTOH, it's probably wise to have a flash and learn what it can do for you. Especially if you are new to photography and/or DSLRs, or simply have never used a flash. There are cheaper, smaller options than 580EX, too, that are almost as powerful. A flash bracket and an off-camera-shoe-cord are important flash accessories.

And, "faster glass" doesn't necessarily equate to L glass! In fact, some L-series are fairly specialized lenses. "Lesser" models can in some cases be more versatile, faster focusing, cheaper, more compact, lighter weight.

3. I'm buying a tripod. I've been in photography way too long to have never owned a tripod. I'll be getting something decent that will be with me for a long time.

Another good idea. A tripod does a lot more than just help you make steady shots. It teaches you to slow down, to think about your shots and not "snap shoot". A good tripod might be a once in a lifetime purchase. One of my tripods is 30+ years old. Another is about 10 years old.

A good quality tripod encourages you to actually use it... not leave it at home or in the trunk of the car.

4. I am giving my nephew my 50mm 1.8 for Christmas. I'm going to add a prime to my collection. I'm considering the Canon 50mm 1.4 and the Sigma 30mm 1.4. This is the reason I posted all this in this forum. What prime in that price point would you recommend?

Two different focal lengths, so it depends upon what you are trying to accomplish. The 50mm is a "short portrait" lens. The 30mm is a "standard" lens. They aren't interchangeable. There are also the Sigma 50/1.4 and the Canon 28/1.8 to consider, so you actually have choices either way.

With prime lenses, it's more usual to have several, than to have just one. Personally I use Canon 20/2.8, 28/1.8, 50/1.4, 85/1.8 and 135/2 (but I'm using both full frame and crop sensor cameras). But if only planning to get one, you need to decide what you want the lens to do.

Sigma are nice lenses, certainly. They are a bit iffy on focus calibration, and tend to be larger and heavier than the closest Canon counterparts. In some cases the Sigma are more expensive, too (50/1.4 and the 85mm).

You might need to do the swap thing... trying different copies of a Sigma until you get one that's well calibrated for focus accuracy. So you might want to be sure to buy it from a retailer who will work with you in that respect. Alternatively, folks have pretty good luck sending Sigma in for calibration, under warranty. Just be sure to test the focus accuracy.

Since you are shooting with a 60D, which doesn't have Micro Focus Adjust feature that 50D, 5DII and 7D do, in general you might lean a little more toward Canon lens options, since overall they seem to much less often need focus calibration.

I haven't tried the 15-85 personally, but a lot of people really like it and it appears to be a good general purpose, walk-around lens choice.

My concern is that you haven't really defined your wants or needs in any detail. So it's hard to suggest what would be best to complement the one lens you have now (since the 50/1.8 is going to be given away).

There's certainly use for a faster (larger aperture) lens alongside your walk-around zoom. A fairly big aperture lens gives you a lot more control over depth of field. If that's what you need... go for it.

On the other hand, it also might be really nice to have longer or wider lenses, to augment what you have. But it's really hard to say, without knowing what you want to shoot and how you want to shoot it.

All these options COMBINED are going to cost me less than 1 good L lens and I think it will open up my photography much more than 1 L lens could ever do. I figure this will all cost me about $1000.

With that budget you should be able to get a tripod, a lens and a flash, at least. You just need to narrow it down to what lens will meet your needs best and how big a flash you have to have.

The good news is that virtually any choice you make, you can pretty easily change in the future if necessary... Selling off a lens or accessory that you find doesn't fit into your system or shooting style as well as you thought it would. It doesn't hurt much to experiment, in other words.

Lay out a plan for the future... This won't be your last purchase, I'm sure. As an example, portraits might be really important to you now and you might want a lens for that purpose... but also you might have a nagging desire to try shooting macro sometime in the future. You might be able to get a dual purpose lens now... Or you might prioritize a lens to buy today, another that you hope to acquire later.

Plans can change, too. Something that appeals to you today might lose importance in the future or be bumped down in priority by something else.

Still, make a plan. That will help you decide what to get now and what to work toward in the future.

Don't overlook some of the other accessories, either... For example, I would always recommend getting the matched lens hoods for whatever lenses you choose (if not included). A circular polarizer filter is useful for a variety of situations and is one of the few filters that cannot be replicated very effectively after the fact in image processing softwares. There are also other post-production considerations: Calibrating your computer monitor and printer is a good thing. Various softwares can be important, too, depending upon what you are trying to do.

I will remain active in these forums but I'm going to get out there...and master what I already have.

I would also recommend some books... both the "how to" type and "coffee table" books by photographers whose work you admire. The first can help you get the best out of the gear you've got and figuring out how photos that appeal to you were made can help guide your future needs. How to books come in at least a few varieties... there are guide books specific to your camera and to using your particular system... and there are general photography technique books (such as "Understanding Exposure", by Brian Peterson, which I highly recommend) and there are subject-specific books (portraits, wildlife, macro, weddings, etc., etc., etc.)

I also suggest looking for a photo club or meetup group near you... It's often a lot more fun going out and shooting with other people, seeing what they are doing and learning from each other. It wouldn't hurt to take a class, either.


Alan Myers (external link) "Walk softly and carry a big lens."
5DII, 7DII, 7D, M5 & others. 10-22mm, Meike 12/2.8,Tokina 12-24/4, 20/2.8, EF-M 22/2, TS 24/3.5L, 24-70/2.8L, 28/1.8, 28-135 IS (x2), TS 45/2.8, 50/1.4, Sigma 56/1.4, Tamron 60/2.0, 70-200/4L IS, 70-200/2.8 IS, 85/1.8, Tamron 90/2.5, 100/2.8 USM, 100-400L II, 135/2L, 180/3.5L, 300/4L IS, 300/2.8L IS, 500/4L IS, EF 1.4X II, EF 2X II. Flashes, strobes & various access. - FLICKR (external link)

  
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JohnB57
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Dec 11, 2011 11:58 |  #10

Just a slight digression but I'm curious about something.

Those of you who shoot RAW files and use a white balance card such as the above; I presume you use the light temperature that the camera selects from the card as a reference for RAW processing? Otherwise, there doesn't seem to be much point in setting white balance at all. JPGs obviously need correct WB in advance.




  
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amfoto1
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Dec 11, 2011 12:16 |  #11

JohnB57 wrote in post #13527207 (external link)
Just a slight digression but I'm curious about something.

Those of you who shoot RAW files and use a white balance card such as the above; I presume you use the light temperature that the camera selects from the card as a reference for RAW processing? Otherwise, there doesn't seem to be much point in setting white balance at all. JPGs obviously need correct WB in advance.

Yes, but there are two possiblities....

One is to set a Custom WB in the camera, using the target. You have to be careful that the target is truly reflecting the light source and it can be difficult in mixed light situations.

The other is to take a wider shot that includes the target (or several of them) in the scene, then use this as a reference image later when working on your images in Photoshop (or whatever). Sampling the neutral target with an eyedropper, you can set the WB in post processing.

I often do both.

In general, yes you want to try to get pretty close with JPEGs, if at all possible. There's some limited opportunity to correct JPEGs later, but no where near as much flexibility as with RAW files.

All the above is pretty hard to do well if your computer monitor and workflow in general isn't calibrated.


Alan Myers (external link) "Walk softly and carry a big lens."
5DII, 7DII, 7D, M5 & others. 10-22mm, Meike 12/2.8,Tokina 12-24/4, 20/2.8, EF-M 22/2, TS 24/3.5L, 24-70/2.8L, 28/1.8, 28-135 IS (x2), TS 45/2.8, 50/1.4, Sigma 56/1.4, Tamron 60/2.0, 70-200/4L IS, 70-200/2.8 IS, 85/1.8, Tamron 90/2.5, 100/2.8 USM, 100-400L II, 135/2L, 180/3.5L, 300/4L IS, 300/2.8L IS, 500/4L IS, EF 1.4X II, EF 2X II. Flashes, strobes & various access. - FLICKR (external link)

  
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troutfisher
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Dec 11, 2011 12:19 |  #12

JohnB57 wrote in post #13527207 (external link)
Just a slight digression but I'm curious about something.

Those of you who shoot RAW files and use a white balance card such as the above; I presume you use the light temperature that the camera selects from the card as a reference for RAW processing? Otherwise, there doesn't seem to be much point in setting white balance at all. JPGs obviously need correct WB in advance.

Not quite,you take shot of the whibal card in the lighting under which you are shooting,then depending on the software you select the whibal card with an eyedropper and paste that setting into the other shots, it saves setting custom white balance the only thing to remember is to take another reference shot if the light changes.

BTW your thinking on equipment is spot on!


Chris
" Age and treachery will always defeat youth and enthusiasm"

  
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Preeb
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Dec 11, 2011 12:26 |  #13

Bazinga wrote in post #13526930 (external link)
Sorry in advance for the semi-long post.

I've been in the market for some upgrades since joining (my reason for joining) and I have bounced around from ditching my 60D and 15-85 altogether for a 5D2 and 24-105 to just adding some L glass to my 60D. I have scoured the forums, listened to your advice and have made some decisions solely based on the great advice here.

1. I'm sticking with my 60D and 15-85. I have nowhere near mastered anything about this setup. I fell victim to thinking that better equipment = better pictures. I am going to master my current camera before even considering full frame. My current camera and lens is more than "good enough" and many would love to have this combo.

2. I came here looking for faster glass and read a lot of advice saying "get a flash, it will help tremendously". I chose to say Nah, I want L glass! I've decided to listen to the masses and get a 580EX II. It will open many options for me and my 60D/15-85. I read many threads in the lighting forum that have convinced me this is a great option and a must have for EVERYONE (well an external flash in general).

3. I'm buying a tripod. I've been in photography way too long to have never owned a tripod. I'll be getting something decent that will be with me for a long time.

4. I am giving my nephew my 50mm 1.8 for Christmas. I'm going to add a prime to my collection. I'm considering the Canon 50mm 1.4 and the Sigma 30mm 1.4. This is the reason I posted all this in this forum. What prime in that price point would you recommend?

All these options COMBINED are going to cost me less than 1 good L lens and I think it will open up my photography much more than 1 L lens could ever do. I figure this will all cost me about $1000.

Thank you all for the advice and it took some time but, I've finally got it through my thick skull that buying the latest and greatest and most expensive is not the best. I needed to fill some basic needs and that's what I'm doing before I consider L glass or a full frame camera.

I will remain active in these forums but I'm going to get out there and shoot and stop worrying about what to get next and master what I already have.

Your thinking is right in line with THIS (external link) article.


Rick
6D Mark II - EF 17-40 f4 L -- EF 100mm f2.8 L IS Macro -- EF 70-200 f4 L IS w/1.4 II TC

  
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lungdoc
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Dec 11, 2011 12:26 |  #14

One thing to consider for external flash is to think of using it when flash doesn't seem necessary: fill flash in bright conditions often improves a shot a lot and you can't do a lot of that with a built in flash (lacks power and no high speed sync).


Mark
My Smugmug (external link) Eos 7D, Canon G1X II, Canon 15-85 IS, Canon 17-85 IS, Sigma 100-300 EX IF HSM, Canon 50mm 1.8, Canon 85mm 1.8, Canon 100mm 2.8 Macro, Sigma 50-150 2.8, Sigma 1.4 EX DG , Sigma 24-70 F2.8 DG Macro, Canon EF-S 10-22, Canon 430EX,

  
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Trique ­ Daddi
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Dec 11, 2011 12:36 |  #15

I think most of us need to get out and shoot more to master the equipment we do have. If you will take time to learn the flash you will be surprised what it can offer you feature wse. The 580 II is an awesoe unit and will be helpful if begin shooting sports at some point.

Congrats!


Canon 7DMKII,7D 40D, 20D, CANON 100-400mm IS 4.5/5.6L, Canon 70-200mm 2.8L, Canon 50mm 1.8, Canon 100mm 2.8 macro, Kenko Extension Tubes, Sigma 17-50mm F2.8 EX DC OS, 580EX II Flash,Gittos MH 5580 monopod, Thinktank Airport Takeoff.

  
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