7D or 60D for my usage?

Hello, First off let me say that I'm totally new to Canon products as I've recently been selling off my Olympus DSLR gear ( still have a couple of great lenses if anyone's interested). I'm trying to decide between the 7D or 60D. I plan on using it primarily for wildlife and BIF use. I plan on buying the 400L 5.6 lens at the same time as well.
I have a list of questions that I'll put here seperatly. I know the 7D may have some focusing issues as some have reported but I'm not ruling it out because of that.
Does the 60D have any issues that I need to be concerned about, any known flaws etc.?

Does the dual Digic 4 processors in the 7D make a big difference vs. a sgl. one in the 60D?

Is the FPS difference a big deal? I'm new to taking BIF photos so not sure how critical it would be.

I believe the 60D does not have the AF microadjust. Is this a must have feature?

Do both models have an equal AI servo mode as far as tracking BIF is concerned?

Will the 1.4 extender work equally well on both cameras using the same lens, like the 400 5.6?

I have only shot JPEG up to this point but might try RAW also. Is one model better suited for JPEG for any reason?

Is the type of memory card a concern, SD vs CF? Does one type generally have better image quality if I use high grade cards?

Is the 19pt. AF of the 7D that much of an advantage over the 9pt of the 60D?

Video is not a concern for me at all.

Is the 7D the only one that has the spot focus feature?

I assume the slightly larger LCD on the 7D is not a big deal or is it?

I have no problem spending the extra money on the 7D if it is justified and an advantage for the type of photographs I plan on taking as mentioned above.
If the 60D will suit my needs just fine in you peoples opinion, that's fine and then I can put the extra money towards my hope of buying a used 500 F4 lens in the future.

Are there any other sites that have a history of giving good reviews of cameras? I'm only familiar with DPreview.

I appreciate all your opinions, pro or con as this forum seems to be THE place as far as Canon knowledge is concerned.
I would describe my DSLR knowledge as definitely above a point and shoot level but still a ton to learn on the DSLR front and I'm not afraid to experiment to see what works best for me as I know there is no such thing as a perfect camera that works for everyone.
Thank you very much.
Bob

The 7d is absolutely better for birds in flight. He main 2 advantages are the 19 point AF and the microadjust.
Everything else will be very similar between the 2.

I do mainly wildlife and birds. I recently chose the 60d over the 7d due to funds.
If the extra $450 want an issue, get the 7d.
The SD vs cf cards isn't an issue. A teleconverter will work well on both.
The screen size isn't going to be different in practical use.
They both are great on batteries.
They have the same sensor.
The 2 processors on the 7d work great as one is for AF only.
The 8fps isn't a big deal to me over the 5.3 in the 60d.

For me this is an easy choice. I would if I had the funds chose the 7D. I could use all my CF cards and Battery's that I now have.

Quack Me Up wrote in post #13581879
I plan on using it primarily for wildlife and BIF use.

You want the 7D.

Quack Me Up wrote in post #13581879
Do both models have an equal AI servo mode as far as tracking BIF is concerned?

No. And that's why you want the 7D.

jhayesvw wrote in post #13582227
The 2 processors on the 7d work great as one is for AF only.

Nope. The two Digic processors are part of what allows the 7D to have a higher frame rate. But neither has anything to do with focussing. The 7D's AF superiority is partly because it has a third processor dedicated to AF.

I misread the DP review. It says it has its own AF processor. Then talks aboit the 2 digic processors. I misunderstood.
Thanks
Either way it has a better AF system.

I'm torn between 7d or 5dmkII

OP: 7D seems to be the better option for you.

On a side note, I find micro-adjust extremely valuable. Some of my lenses would be paper weights w/out it. However, I noticed that when I had a body w/out micro adjust, none of my lenses needed it? Coincidence..? Hmm..

Talley wrote in post #13584129
I'm torn between 7d or 5dmkII

I have both and they are very different cameras. What do you like to shoot and what are your photography goals?

Hieu, Bob wrote that BIF and wildlife were a couple important things in his original post.

7D would be a top choice for BIF and is good at many things. As some have already responded, the main feature that would make the 7D top choice is it's AF system.

With some practice 60D actually can come close to the same level of AF performance, assuming both cameras used in a relatively straightforward manner... With practice you might see practically the same number of good focus shots... Or pehaps 1 or 2 more missed focus shots per 100, 60D compared to 7D.

However, 7D's AF is far more configurable to certain situations... This is both good and bad. Good if you know what you are doing and set the camera up right. Bad if you do it wrong.

I'd estimate 90% of "focus issues" with 7D are the user's fault, not the camera's. Sure, like any product coming off an assembly line, there are likely the rare "bad copy" here and there. But ultimately I think a lot of 7Ds get blamed for people who don't use them right. It is a more difficult camera to learn to use well.

A friend of mine who is a long time Pentax shooter was given a 7D and 100-400 as a gift and is still struggling to get used to the 7D a year later. He uses it successfully for BIF, but still prefers his Pentax for everything else. I've tried to help him, but he doesn't want to try Back Button Focusing and over-relies upon the automation of the 7D's AF system (All Points or Zone most of the time)...

5DII would be a whole lot further down my wish list for BIF... It just doesn't track movement as well as either 60D or 7D. The full framer is certainly usable for less active wildlife... if you have some really big lenses. The add'l 1.6X "free teleconverter" of crop cameras can be nice and allow you to lug around slightly smaller/lighter lenses.

The 1.4X teleconverter on 400/5.6 will lose auto focus... The combo will be an effective 560mm f8, and only the 1D series cameras can autofocus an f8 lens. If you want longer, you might want to look at the Sigma 150-500 OS... It would be cheaper than the 400/5.6 + teleconverter and has stabilization, too. You need an f4 lens to use a 1.4X on either 7D or 60D, if you want to be able to AF. You need an f2.8 lens to still be able to AF with a 2X.

I use Single Point and just the center one most of the time. The additional AF points in the 7D are nice, but not essential because I also use Back Button Focusing and have no problem focusing and recomposing. Those techiques makes it less necessary to have a viewfinder full of AF points. 60D and 7D both have all cross-type sensors.... 5DII it's only the center point that's cross-type and the outer points are less usable (pokier, more likely to hunt) than on the crop cameras.

There is little or no difference in image quality between 7D and 60D... they use essentially the same sensor, processor, etc. (7D has additional processor, but that's really only related to the higher FPS it's capable of doing). Either camera can shoot RAW or JPEG or RAW+JPEG just fine. 7D uses compact flash memory... 60D uses smaller SD memory. Doesn't effect image quality at all and SD has virtually caught up to CF in terms of speed and capacity... SD tends to be a little cheaper.

Micro Focus Adjust is nice to have... If you use it. It's also possible to send lenses and/or cameras in for calibration, though.

The size of the LCD on 7D is no big deal... The articulated LCD on 60D is very cool and might be quite useful for certain types of shots.

Right now only the 7D has Spot Focus. It's a "precision" AF mode that uses a smaller than usual AF point, so handy for photographing a bird in a tree, amid a tangle of branches, for example. It's a bit slower than standard AF, though. I think the new 1DX will have this focus mode, too.

Either 60D or 7D can be great for BIF and many other things... with a bit of an edge going to the 7D if you take the time to learn to use it well. I'd choose either of them over 5DII for that type of shooting (but I choose 5DII for portraiture, scenic shots and some other purposes where it excels over the crop cameras). If you think saving $500 on the camera would help you build the rest of your gear, I'd go with 60D (and I tend to think lenses are more important than the camera they are used upon... for example if some savings might allow you to consider Sigma 120-300 OS with 1.4X and 2X teleconverters, you'd have a more versatile kit... but that's more than a $500 difference!). If you think you'd regret not getting the 7D, have to have the best in class and have the budget to cover it and the lenses you need, well it's a great camera too so long as you put in the effort to learn to use it well.

Get the 7D.

I used to own a 7D, along with bunch of Shiiety Lenses but sold it all last year. Now that the DSLR bug bit me once again. I researched one more time and did not see any other Cropper better than 7D in pretty much all aspect. Some may say Nikon D7000 has slight edge over 7D but this is a Canon forum so lets stick with 7D

I also checked out the 60D at bestbuy while ago and it just didn't do it for me. The body felt very light and dare i say cheap.

Performance wise, 7D is def better choice also. I would get 7D now, they are going for $1200-$1300 these days. I was lucky to get my 2nd 7D couple of weeks ago for $1100 (ebay daily deal from seller ASavings).
Link: http://slickdeals.net …a-Body-1100-Free-Shipping

GL

amfoto1 wrote in post #13584659
Hieu, Bob wrote that BIF and wildlife were a couple important things in his original post.

I know - I recommended the 7D for Bob.

My other statement/question was targeted at the post I quoted, which was not from Bob (just in case you missed it).

Quack Me Up wrote in post #13581879
I'm trying to decide between the 7D or 60D. I plan on using it primarily for wildlife and BIF use.
Does the dual Digic 4 processors in the 7D make a big difference vs. a sgl. one in the 60D?

Is the FPS difference a big deal? I'm new to taking BIF photos so not sure how critical it would be.

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It is a big deal if you're shooting birds.
You want a fast fps.
So get the 7D
Its great in good light when you want to utilize the 8fps

7d, nuff said.

I shoot birds almost exclusively and do not find the FPS very valuable.

Most action shooters will tell you (because it seems to be true) that spraying and praying with high FPS isnt nearly as good as timing your shot and knowing what youre shooting.

with that said, the 5+ FPS of the 60d is very adequate.
I still recommend the 7d though as its nice to KNOW you have the nicest option (in 1.6 crop)

Thank you all very much for the great replies. This is exactly why I wanted to post these questions here. I know there have been numerous posts asking these same questions in various ways so I appreciate you all taking the time to reply. I didn't want to have to search hundreds of prior threads to find one answer from each one.
As far as a 1.4 extender goes, I only plan on using that if I am fortunate enough to find a good used 500 F4 in the future. I don't plan on using it on the 400 5.6.
I better check Pricegrabber and see who has the best deal on the 7D in the next couple of days as I'm ready to pull the trigger!
Thanks again and any more replies would be more than welcome.
Hope you all have a great holiday!
Bob