Help Please - Group Lighting

Hi guys,

Lighting newb here.

My mom just called and said she had a great idea. She wants to do a family portrait after the Christmas service. 13 people including myself. This will test my skills severely.

The group - 7 adults, 6 boys between the ages of 5 and 13.

The gear - 2 Eli 500 BXRis, 1 580EXII, 1 Vivtar flash
1 53" Rotalux, 2 small soft boxes, 1 strip light (has to be used with flash)
2 dishes for the Eli's with gels
1 large black backdrop
9 ft ceiling

How would you guys set this up?

I'd use my biggest modifer directly behind and above the camera.
I'd use the rest of my lights and or mods to take care of the background or add accent lights if needed. If you're using a background I might consider throwing a gradient of light across it, or maybe use a bare flash with the dish to make a halo of light or something on the background.

If you want to do key/fill, you really need to work on positioniong people so they don't cast a shadow on anyone. I personally don't think key/fill looks good on group shots in most cases. If I do it, I keep the contrast ratio between key and fill pretty tight, and keep my key light closer to the axis of the camera than normal. I position it about 15 degrees off axis from the lens. Judging from your gear, I probably wouldn't do this though, you don't really have a modifier big enough to act as fill, and those small softboxes won't act as key on a large group.

I think your best bet would be to keep it simple. Use the Rotalux directly behind and above camera, use the 580 as a hair light and the other Eli as a background light to either cast a gradient of light on the background, or to make a halo of light on the background. There's probably going to be some color shift between the Elis and the 580. It would be less noticeable if the odd light out was used as a hair light.

Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!

And if you think you might do this type of thing again, consider picking up a 64" or 86" PLM with eli mount for future use, they work great for lighting groups.

Those two together make a great combo. 64" in soft silver as key, 86" soft silver as fill.
It'll put out a little more light than a softbox yet has a little more contrast or punch.

The 86" is a beast though. Hard to use indoors without a tall ceiling, especially as a key.

bdillon wrote in post #13586495
Those two together make a great combo. 64" in soft silver as key, 86" soft silver as fill.
It'll put out a little more light than a softbox yet has a little more contrast or punch.

The 86" is a beast though. Hard to use indoors without a tall ceiling, especially as a key.

Yeah, that is what I do. I was thinking he'd still use his 53" Rotalux as key, so he'd only need one PLM.

Also, if it's too punchy for the group, you can put the white diffusion front on to tone it down.

Dave Jr wrote in post #13586515
Yeah, that is what I do. I was thinking he'd still use his 53" Rotalux as key, so he'd only need one PLM.

Also, if it's too punchy for the group, you can put the white diffusion front on to tone it down.

Can you really have too much gear?

That's why I like the PLM so much. Very versatile. I actually prefer the punch, it goes quite well with full sun photos......you just really need a person there holding the dang stand though.

I always try to match the type of light my strobe produces with what the brain (my brain anyway) would expect to see in that scene. There's something about a large softbox in close at 3pm on a summer day that doesn't look natural to me.

bdillon wrote in post #13586576
Can you really have too much gear?

That's why I like the PLM so much. Very versatile. I actually prefer the punch, it goes quite well with full sun photos......you just really need a person there holding the dang stand though.

I always try to match the type of light my strobe produces with what the brain (my brain anyway) would expect to see in that scene. There's something about a large softbox in close at 3pm on a summer day that doesn't look natural to me.

HAHA, no, you can't. Just trying to be fiscally prudent for the OP. I like PLM's too, both with and without diffusion.

Ok. What is a plm?

http://www.paulcbuff.c​om/plm.php

Comes in three sizes and three finishes, and is available in eli mount.

Read this too. Helps you decide which one you might want.

http://www.paulcbuff.c​om/plm-compare.php

Wow, that's cheap. I never bothered looking at this stuff much. I hope it's ok to ask here but is the quality of light that much better in the 69" indirects or whatever and the other things that the guys in the Eli thread always rave about?

That is cheap - might have to get one, though unfortunately I won't have it by Saturday.

SuperHuman21 wrote in post #13586863
Wow, that's cheap. I never bothered looking at this stuff much. I hope it's ok to ask here but is the quality of light that much better in the 69" indirects or whatever and the other things that the guys in the Eli thread always rave about?

I believe the quality of light is excellent from them. The 86" with the diffusion fabric makes a massive cheap softbox. I can't comment on the difference between these and the large expensive eli stuff, but these do a very nice job, at a great price.

Of the three finishes, I prefer the soft silver, for most uses.

The 51" white with front spill kill makes an interesting Chinese Lantern style modifier.