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Thread started 18 Jan 2012 (Wednesday) 16:53
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Confused... What lens is best for me???

 
DavideG
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Jan 18, 2012 16:53 |  #1

Ok, I have a 500D / Rebel T1i
I already have a 70-200 f4 L USM + a 2x extender for the zoom side of things.

However, after having that, my kit lens just don't do it for me any more...
All I'm looking for is a good walk-about lens, something that I can take on holidays and use day to day & at night, so far I've looked at:

24-70 f2.8 L USM- Awesome quality, but after seeing one, they are big and heavy and no IS (which doesn't seem to worry anyone)

24-105 f4 L USM IS - Also awesome quality, not to fussed about the extra zoom, but big and heavy, and also only f4

17-55 f2.8 USM IS - From what I've seen, quality is good, light weight and smaller compared to the other two

Or is there something else I should be looking at?


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cdo221
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Jan 18, 2012 17:02 |  #2

You may also want to consider the Sigma 17-50mm OS HSM .. it competes directly with the 17-55 IS, and is a pretty good lens from reading about it on the forums. I've only used the 24-105mm and 24-70mm on a FF body.. the 24-105mm is an excellent one lens solution for walkaround/travel on FF. The 24-70mm can also be a walk around but it's obviously less flexible. For me, IS is more useful than f/2.8 when traveling. However, I now use the 24-70mm but it's not a travel lens for me, it's something I take out for events and sometimes portraits. For crop, 24mm may not be wide enough for you.


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kin2son
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Jan 18, 2012 17:04 |  #3
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One of the 17-5x, forget the 24-70 and 24-105, both not the best option on a crop body imho.


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Jan 18, 2012 17:09 |  #4

I agree get one of the 17-50ish models. The canon if its in the budget, it has L quality optics. On a crop camera 24 isnt really wide enough for a general purpose lens.




  
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RobDickinson
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Jan 18, 2012 17:10 |  #5

DOuFINKimSEXY wrote in post #13727735 (external link)
17-55 f2.8 USM IS - From what I've seen, quality is good, light weight and smaller compared to the other two

This. I have a 7D.

24-70f2.8l has better bokeh and build, weighs a ton, no IS and IMO the wrong focal range.

25-105l is f4 and 'slow' for a crop, works great as a walkround on a FF body tho.

17-55 is all round orsome (tho does suck in some dust and can zoom creep). The Sigma 17-50f2.8OS is almost as good for a fair bit less money tho.

EF-S 17-55 f2.8 IS :


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KenjiS
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Jan 18, 2012 17:27 |  #6

For crop users looking to go beyond the 18-55, I have three suggestions:

Canon 15-85 IS, wider than any other APS-C "walkabout" zoom and longer than most of them too, excellent IQ and AF, Not that fast but it compensates by being fantastic wide open... Great for when you can only take one lens with you... this is my current "walkaround" zoom, pair it with the nice compact 50mm f/1.8 you already own and between the two of them you're probably better prepared than just an f/2.8 zoom alone...

Sigma 17-50 OS, Nice and affordable, excellent IQ from everything I've seen, the only one I havnt actually owned mind you, but if i ever needed to switch range for f/2.8 this is what I would end up buying, But to me 17-50 isnt the best "walkaround" range personally...

Canon 17-55 IS, Probubly the undisputed king of fast normal zooms for APS-C, fast with IS so it pretty much covers any situation in theory, great AF and IQ, however the build was a bit meh to me.....And my copy had an annoying tendency to flare (Others copies dont, So I just had a bad copy)


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Capeachy
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Jan 18, 2012 17:55 |  #7

17-55 IS, if you have the money and don't mind the front element collecting dust on the inside. (Does not affect image quality.)


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Bianchi
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Jan 18, 2012 18:05 as a reply to  @ Capeachy's post |  #8

This should put things in perspective, taken from another simular thread...

Originally Posted by amfoto1
I voted "other"... by which I mean both are equally viable options and neither is perfect. There really is no such thing as "best"... It's what's "best" for you, what meets your particular needs well, and what fits into your kit of gear best that really counts.

The Tokina 12-24 is a nice lens at a reasonable price. It's well made, is fairly resistant to flare (a common problem with UWA... just the nature of the beast with a lens that has a wide angle of view) and has quite good image quality. An f4 lens is plenty fast for an UWA most of the time, too ... So long as 12mm is wide enough for you. There are 10mm and even 8mm wide lenses available. (Note: it is wide enough for me... I have and use a 12-24 and don't have plans to exchange it for anything anytime soon.)

The 24-105mm is a fine lens, too, as might be expected with an L-series. Very well made, some sealing, USM for fast/accurate focus, reasonably compact. Very nice IQ. But, relatively pricey and some vignetting at the wide end when used wide open (won't show up much on a crop camera). I prefer to have f2.8 on a middle zoom, so use the 24-70L instead... Though I have a 28-135 IS as a backup/walkaround lens, too, that cost me $250 used. There isn't a lot of difference in image quality between the the 24-70, 24-105 and 28-135 IS. The 28-135 pretty much matches the 24-105 at focal lengths they share... at 135mm the less expensive lens is a little soft wide open. And it's a variable aperture (f3.5-5.6) lens.

I like the combo of 12-24 with 28-135 (or 24-70/2.8 and 70-200/2.8). These are good ranges of focal lengths for me. Actually, 12-24 combined with 28-135 on a crop camera is complete coverage of a wider range of focal lengths than most film shooters ever owned in their entire lifetimes. (This pair of lenses is roughly equivalent to a full frame/film kit with 20mm to 215mm. Many film shooters bought a camera with approx. a 50mm lens. Then the most common additional lenses they would buy were 28mm, 135mm and/or 200mm or 80-200/70-210. Pretty few film shooters ever bought wider or longer lenses than those.) Brand new 12-24 and 28-135 together cost less than the 24-105 alone and about the same as the 17-55 alone. (Both 12-24 and 28-135 also can be found used for considerable savings, making them even more of a bargain.)

The combo of 11-16 with 17-55 comes up short, with 55mm at the longest. That might be fine for some folks. Others might happily use this combo along with a 70-200.

The 11-16 is the only f2.8 UWA lens. It has good IQ and great build, but is more prone to flare than its cousin or some other UWAs. It also costs more than the 12-24. And the trade-off to get f2.8 is an very narrow range of focal lengths. Most zooms are 2X at least (12-24, 16-35, 17-40 for example). This one isn't. Do you really need f2.8 on an UWA? It's not going to blur down backrgounds very much. In fact with wide lenses most of us tend to stop down most of the time to be able to get greater depth of field.

Yes, surely there are some people who absolutely need the speed of f2.8 for low light shooting. The next closest lens is the new Sigma 10-20/3.5 that's 2/3 stop slower. OTOH, an UWA lens is pretty easily handheld at relatively low shutter speeds, perhaps offsetting the need for f2.8 to some degree. Certainly the high ISO capabilities of newer cameras also offset the need for f2.8 to some degree, too.

And there are alternatives. Of all the UWA lenses, the Canon 10-22 is the best for controlling flare. It's unusually good in that respect and other aspects of its image quality are about equal to the Toki 12-24. It's a little more platicky build than the Toki, but it's impossible to say if that translates into less durability. The Canon is a USM lens, while the Toki isn't (not that USM isn't as important on an UWA... the focusing elements only need to move a very short distance to do their job, so even without USM focus is near instantaneous and the inherently deep depth of field pretty much hides any minor focus error). There's also a noticeable difference between 10mm and 12mm wide. If I were looking at the 17-55 as my mid-range zoom, I also might consider pairing it with the new Sigma 8-16mm instead of the Toki, just to have that additional width. Seems a neat lens, though the unavoidable wide angle distortion effects get pretty strong at 8mm!

The EF-S 17-55/2.8 is a fine lens optically, too. Folks love the images it makes. It's nice to have f2.8 on this lens, in the middle range and potentially using it for a short portrait lens around the 55mm setting. And it has USM. But it's fairly expenensive, some have trouble with dust getting under the front element and there have been reports of the IS failing in the past. (I've seen far fewer reports of either of these two concerns recently, maybe Canon has quietly made some changes to the lens.) And 55mm would come up short for me... Though it would pair very nicely with a 70-200 (I wouldn't worry about the gap between 55mm and 70mm). It is an EF-S lens, which sort of rules it out for me since I shoot with both crop and FF cameras and prefer lenses that can be used on both (the Toki 12-24 actually can be used on FF as wide as 19mm approx... though I have a 20mm lens that I normally use instead because it's well corrected, has less WA distortion effects).

So, really, I think you can pick either pair and be satisfied with it... Whichever appeals more to you or fits into your kit better. Several of the lenses mentioned have IS, which is always nice, though for me it wouldn't be a big priority on lenses shorter than 100mm.

At the wide end, even a millimeter or two can make a noticeable difference. So I'd try to minimize gaps between lenses there. Some overlap such as you'd have pairing up Canon 10-22 and 17-55 really isn't a problem... It can mean fewer lens changes in the field. At the tele end, a modest gap between focal lengths isn't an issue... such as 55mm to 70mm, as mentioned above. Overlap, such as would happen with 24-105 and 70-200, isn't an issue, either... unless bordering on fanatically trying to put together a minimalist lens kit covering as much range as possible. Someone wanting a 100-400 or 120-400 or similar telezoom might look at the 24-105 (or 28-135) instead... though the gap between - say - 55mm and 100mm isn't necessarily a problem either.


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watt100
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Jan 18, 2012 18:43 |  #9

DOuFINKimSEXY wrote in post #13727735 (external link)
Ok, I have a 500D / Rebel T1i
I already have a 70-200 f4 L USM + a 2x extender for the zoom side of things.

However, after having that, my kit lens just don't do it for me any more...
All I'm looking for is a good walk-about lens, something that I can take on holidays and use day to day & at night, so far I've looked at:
24-70 f2.8 L USM- Awesome quality, but after seeing one, they are big and heavy and no IS (which doesn't seem to worry anyone)
24-105 f4 L USM IS - Also awesome quality, not to fussed about the extra zoom, but big and heavy, and also only f4
17-55 f2.8 USM IS - From what I've seen, quality is good, light weight and smaller compared to the other two

Or is there something else I should be looking at?



For a crop model, Canon 17-55 2.8, Sigma 17-50 2.8 and Tamron 17-50 2.8




  
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Jan 18, 2012 19:07 |  #10

the Tamron non-vc 17.50mm was pretty damn amazing when I owned it. Crop + 17-50mm tammy is not far off from FF + 24-105mm IMO (my current setup). I loved that lens.

At 17-50, I never felt the need for IS. The AF is noisy, but instantly forgiven once you see the picture quality it produces. Easily one of the bang for the buck lens on the market for crop cameras. I feel that the optics are very close to L optics. The build quality and AF are obviously not.


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DavideG
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Jan 18, 2012 19:14 |  #11

Thanks for the replys guys..

Your pictures speak for them self.. Very nice!

KenjiS wrote in post #13727948 (external link)
Canon 15-85 IS, wider than any other APS-C "walkabout" zoom and longer than most of them too, excellent IQ and AF, Not that fast but it compensates by being fantastic wide open...

Had a look at this lens also, would I be better with the f2.8 on the 17-55 as opposed to the f3.5-5.6 on this lens?
I don't do a lot of night shooting, but would be handy...


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RobDickinson
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Jan 18, 2012 19:28 |  #12

In the same range the 15-85 is between half a stop and 1.5 or so stops slower.

But it has better IS by 1-2 stops (2 vs 4).

So depends somewhat on if you want the subject isolation/dof or if your subjects move.


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shine1
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Jan 18, 2012 20:05 |  #13

As others said, I'd go with 17-55 or 15-85




  
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KenjiS
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Jan 18, 2012 20:59 |  #14

DOuFINKimSEXY wrote in post #13728538 (external link)
Had a look at this lens also, would I be better with the f2.8 on the 17-55 as opposed to the f3.5-5.6 on this lens?
I don't do a lot of night shooting, but would be handy...

It really depends, the way i saw it and the way it ended up being for me is that if i really needed to stop something in the dark f/2.8 wasnt really getting the job done..and i found myself really wanting a fast prime to do that work, And I kinda hated the 17-55 range when I was outdoors and really desired something closer to the 24-105 I had shooting film... Thus when the 15-85 was launched I was one of the first folks here to pick one up...

If you're doing landscapes or nightscapes it doesnt much matter if the lens is f/2.8 or f/5.6 since you're likely stopping it down due to depth of field concerns and that, Even Dickinson's awesome photos up there were shot at apertures either the 15-85 or 17-55 f/2.8 are capable of...and even IS is kinda a moot consideration since most of his examples (Especially the night ones) are likely done from a tripod

What it comes down to is the range VS speed, to me, I'd rather have the 15-85 and a nice fast 50mm (or 35mm) prime instead of the 17-55 f/2.8 because i feel between the two lenses I'm better covered than with just the 17-55... if the light gets low and im shooting something that is moving, or i need isolation, a fast 50, even the humble 50mm f/1.8 is going to be a lot better than the 17-55 is...

Cost wise, keep in mind you could get the 15-85 and upgrade your 50 to one of the 50mm f/1.4 lenses too :)


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Jan 18, 2012 21:54 as a reply to  @ KenjiS's post |  #15

Another vote for the 17-55. You won't miss the gap from 55mm to 70mm where your 70-200 takes over. The speed and IQ can't be beat.


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Confused... What lens is best for me???
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