Am I giving up the gig?

Curious question... I took a automotive picture that a wheel company is interested in because it has their wheels on it. I sent the image to them as a teaser because I knew it would be interesting (was from a show booth) and I know the owner/builder. The wheel company asked me to give contact information etc of the auto. At this point I provided I was a photographer with great port/publication work and would do the shoot. The wheel company then forwarded to their photog department which then informed they already had another photog in the area. This led to them asking again for the contact information and sending me company swag for it (t-shirt etc) in return. So my question is doesnt this feel like I led them to a job for another photographer if I hand over the contact info? Kind of seems like I'm putting myself out of a gig. I'm trying to break out into the automotive industry and have several mag publications coming out etc. this year. Anyone else with experience or knowledge of the system on how I should handle this. Thanks and let me know if I need to fill in any holes...

The way I see it is, they're not interested in using your pic or your services (for whatever reason)... they're interested in the car that has their wheels on it. Maybe they want to have their own photog go out and shoot it, or maybe they want to strike some deal with the owner for something more. Who knows....

If it's just about getting pics of the car, then you can simply give them an ultimatum. Tell them it's your friends car, or your car if you want to go that route (not exactly the ethical way), and that you can arrange for them to get all the pics they want no prob. But... If they want pics of the car, they either go through you or they get nothing. If they want the pics bad enough then they'll do it your way. If not, then you loose out. If they walk, then you weren't going to win anyways, so what do you really have to loose?

as someone who does a lot of photography for automotive companies, I can tell you that companies tend to like to work with people they have worked with before. Different companies have different expectations, but it's much easier to work with people who understand what is expected than to 'try out' a new photographer on a shoot and not have it work out for whatever reason, then have to line up a new shoot.

If you try and use the contact info as leverage, one of two situations will likely occur:
1 - the company will find another way to contact that car owner, and you're out of the picture
2 - the company will decide that it's not worth the hassle, and then you're out of the picture and your friend is out of the picture

The best thing you can do is give them the info and offer to stay in touch with them, possibly providing images of the car in the future from an event or from your own shoot just as a reference. Perhaps they'll use you, perhaps they wont.

Not to sound harsh but, they've made it clear that you're not getting the job.

Your choice is whether to be the nice guy or whether to be a jerk!

If you are trying to break into the car-photo industry, you will probably need all the friends you can get. Withholding information does not make friends.

Phil V wrote in post #13746674
Not to sound harsh but, they've made it clear that you're not getting the job.

Your choice is whether to be the nice guy or whether to be a jerk!

ChunkyDA wrote in post #13747513
If you are trying to break into the car-photo industry, you will probably need all the friends you can get. Withholding information does not make friends.

These two posts sum up my opinion as well. Many businesses enter into collaborative working arrangements. You can give them the info you are holding back in the hopes of something happening down the road or you can continue to hold it and they will see that for what it is and you will probably never get a shot with them. I would say be an adult about it and provide it to them along with a simple statement about your desire to work with them in the future. You at least stand a chance this way, if you hold back you will be remembered for all the wrong reasons.

Right... it was as I seemed but wanted to make sure. This is other advice I received " I shoot commercial stuff and most companies have pretty tight rules on how they want things shot. Once they find someone they like to work with and who knows their requirements, they usually want to use them exclusively. What you do depends on what you want out of them. If you hold out on the info because you want to do the shoot, the wheel may not be that important to them and they will drop it. Plus you can probably say good bye to them ever using for something like this in the future. On the other hand if you are looking for a relationship with them, you can give them the info, let them shoot it. This may give you a foot in the door for future shoots, if they liked your work to begin with. One of the wheel companies I shoot for won't use shots by other people, except on rare occasions when they need a particular wheel shot and the photography is kick ass."

So I'm going the right path and 'working' with them. Thanks for the input and hope it helps others.

Ask for the name of the other photographer, call them up, and ask for a job.

You can't help what happened here.

If it makes you fell any better, this, and worse, is common in consulting and writing.

Keep moving forward.

If they already have a photog in the area then they probably don't want to pay you for photos. They'd rather have the guy they're already paying do the work since he's in the area. I would set up the gig, meet with the photographer and see if he can't help get you in to the business. It's good business sense for the company to hire their own employees in the area than risk getting shots back that they don't want. So, no. You probably never had the gig to begin with. Just my $.02

djtwigsta wrote in post #13755811
Right... it was as I seemed but wanted to make sure. This is other advice I received " I shoot commercial stuff and most companies have pretty tight rules on how they want things shot. Once they find someone they like to work with and who knows their requirements, they usually want to use them exclusively. What you do depends on what you want out of them. If you hold out on the info because you want to do the shoot, the wheel may not be that important to them and they will drop it. Plus you can probably say good bye to them ever using for something like this in the future. On the other hand if you are looking for a relationship with them, you can give them the info, let them shoot it. This may give you a foot in the door for future shoots, if they liked your work to begin with. One of the wheel companies I shoot for won't use shots by other people, except on rare occasions when they need a particular wheel shot and the photography is kick ass."

So I'm going the right path and 'working' with them. Thanks for the input and hope it helps others.

isn't that exactly what I said?

CameraMan wrote in post #13756051
If they already have a photog in the area then they probably don't want to pay you for photos. They'd rather have the guy they're already paying do the work since he's in the area. I would set up the gig, meet with the photographer and see if he can't help get you in to the business. It's good business sense for the company to hire their own employees in the area than risk getting shots back that they don't want. So, no. You probably never had the gig to begin with. Just my $.02

Why would a photographer help someone new take their business away from them?

Yes JacobPhoto and I'm sure you dont mind the confirmation

Looks like they will be keeping me in the loop and possibly meeting said photog. Either way good learning experience.

JacobPhoto wrote in post #13760354
Why would a photographer help someone new take their business away from them?

If I worked for a company that needed photographers and I happened to meet up with a photographer who might have some skill and looking for work I'd tell him that they're looking for someone in another area. I am currently working this area so you'll probably have to work another area if they hire you.

JacobPhoto wrote in post #13760354
Why would a photographer help someone new take their business away from them?

It'll be difficult to find a photographer or other small businessman who hasn't helped others in the business from time to time. It's complicated but everything from a selfish belief that there's some kind of payback to altruism are reasons for people to be nice to other people.

In one hand you have free swag, in the other hand you have nothing. Tough choice. Frankly they don't need to give you anything. They didn't pay you to take the picture, you took it and gave it to them. If I see an Oakley athlete and take a picture of them and send it to Oakley, who would think they would call me to shoot for them when they probably already have a stable of photogs they work with?

Phil V wrote in post #13761272
It's complicated but everything from a selfish belief that there's some kind of payback to altruism are reasons for people to be nice to other people.

I'm nice to everyone... until they screw me over or attempt to screw me over. If I can save my neck... LOOK OUT!