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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 22 Jan 2012 (Sunday) 09:10
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Are Amateurs destroying Photography

 
smorter
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Jan 24, 2012 00:52 |  #91

That is one of the silliest, elitist and patronizing photography sites out there


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FlyingPhotog
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Jan 24, 2012 03:58 |  #92

smorter wrote in post #13758203 (external link)
That is one of the silliest, elitist and patronizing photography sites out there

Yeah,

Ain't it great!? :lol:


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Jan 24, 2012 04:46 |  #93

Must someone get sick with 5D2 Vs 7D, and bring up something different ;)


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dtufino
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Jan 24, 2012 07:24 as a reply to  @ x_tan's post |  #94

amazing site:

http://youarenotaphoto​grapher.com/ (external link)

LMAO!


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Flores
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Jan 24, 2012 07:30 |  #95

Bosscat wrote in post #13755990 (external link)
I think they sell in person or by mail based on the homepage, and they sell at really low prices too.

It's also a 'captive' market. If the guy is the only one taking pictures at the event, even the automode super high ISO grainy stuff coming out of his DSLR is 1000% better than the guy with his iphone.

:)




  
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Ross ­ J
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Jan 24, 2012 07:56 as a reply to  @ Flores's post |  #96
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There is a lot of healthy suspicion of authority in this thread and that's a good thing. Most people are probably skeptical of governing bodies like guilds or licensing because of concern for tyranny. They're correct to be concerned. However, it's important to understand that tyranny doesn't only come from the top-down but it also arrives from the bottom-up in the form of the mob or crowd.

In photography, tyranny often comes from appeals to popularity because that puts the fate of the craft in the hands of the public (a crowd) and takes it away from individual experts. For example, the clients that hire photographers are doing so because they don't possess the skills to create the work on their own. If photographers appeal to clients to determine professional standards then they are putting the most ignorant part of the public in command of the craft. Photographers must control their own craft and must not leave it in the hands of the most ignorant.

Photography is a relatively new medium (less than 200 years old) so it's still got a lot of growing pains to work out. The debate between what makes a professional or an amateur is only going to intensify as time goes on. Unfortunately, there are no standards right now accept for appeals to popularity with the public (bottom-up tyranny) and this situation always leads to it's reactionary opposite which is licensing and regulation (top-down tyranny.) Fascism always arrives as an answer to the anarchy of crowds, so the very people that are appealing to the public as a way of avoiding the tyranny of top-down regulation are in fact inviting that very tyranny to come.

Photographers must police themselves or others (the public or the state) will do it for them. The only way for photographers to control their own profession is to do it through the creation and maintenance of universal standards of craftsmanship. (If anyone is interested, there is more about craftsmanship in my first post in this thread)The public and government officials are both too ignorant to understand craftsmanship which means that the fate of the medium will lie in the hands of photographers. There would be no possibility of it ending up in the hands of the crowd or the beaurocrats. However, freedom only comes with vigilance. If photographers are to control their own medium and have the freedom to police themselves then they are going to have to remain vigilant against any attacks from the outside or the inside. This means to prepare for lots of disagreement and conflict between divisions and factions of photographers. Many folks are trying to avoid having that conflict but it must happen and is actually necessary for the medium of photography to advance and become a domain where art has the possibility of existence.




  
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kfreels
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Jan 24, 2012 08:28 |  #97

smorter wrote in post #13758203 (external link)
That is one of the silliest, elitist and patronizing photography sites out there

It's all in good fun but I wouldn't call it "elitist". If I call myself a doctor, that means i know something about doctoring. If I buy a bunch of medical tools that doesn't make me a doctor. The same thing happens with a mechanic, electrician, and even a hair dresser isn't just a person with a pair of scissors. So why is photography any different?

Sure, we all started somewhere. But I didn't dare attempt to pass myself off as a professional photographer when I was a student. I was an "aspiring photographer", a "photography student", and even an "amateur" and I clearly set that expectation when I went out and accepted work. And sure I worked for less.

What I didn't do is bash "over-priced photographers" which I see on these fauxtographer websites all the time. That site goes after a particular sub-set of people who are point and shooters who put no time into learning their craft and yet claim the title of photographer.

But that was really all in fun. I personally don't think these people are "ruining" anything. Sure, the've made it more difficult to stand out from the crowd. But these new technologies are really helping us take our craft places we couldn't even go before and I'm pretty confident that they will always be behind is in that regard.

I think overall the effect is positive. It has allowed people who wouldn't be able to get photos taken at all because of financial barriers to have a record of their lives in a way that wasn't possible before. I'm sure that there are some who might have gone to Olan Mills, Walmart, or other such places to get photos on occasion because that was the only way to get half-way decent photos, the people who chose not to go that route and chose to pay a premium for a professional for something truly unique and distinctive will continue to do so into the future. So the market that is mostly affected is the low-end market and basic journalism.

Like the music and movie industries, the photography industry is being transformed by technology. But there will always be a market for the only person in the right place at the right time and for someone who can create something truly distinctive.


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karlpilkington
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Jan 24, 2012 08:33 |  #98

truth be told, i've never entered a hobby with more snobs than photography.

i'm still trying to figure out what it is that makes photographers feel so entitled.


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Jan 24, 2012 08:38 |  #99

???

Why on earth do you assume that a craft such as photography needs to be "policed", either by government, the "masses", or photographers? How many people out painting signs and such are "policed" in that sense? I'd say, umm, none?


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Ross ­ J
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Jan 24, 2012 08:43 |  #100
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karlpilkington wrote in post #13759234 (external link)
truth be told, i've never entered a hobby with more snobs than photography.

i'm still trying to figure out what it is that makes photographers feel so entitled.

Stieglitz, one of the founding fathers of photography as a domain for art, was kicked out of his own camera club in NY because they thought he was an elitist. But the truth is that the people who kicked him out were hacks and all of their work has easily been forgotten by time while Stieglitz is still valid even today. Hacks always have power in numbers and they can control anything that is democratic. The unskilled will always attack the skilled. Photography is different than many other mediums because the mechanical equipment is so easily accessible to novices that they can quickly overwhelm and destroy the actual experts. That's why the fights are always going to be so intense.




  
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Jan 24, 2012 08:48 |  #101

Anyone can do a brake job... Only a person with skill and knowledge can do it right... Which car would you rather travel in?


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smorter
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Jan 24, 2012 08:48 |  #102

kfreels wrote in post #13759206 (external link)
It's all in good fun but I wouldn't call it "elitist". If I call myself a doctor, that means i know something about doctoring. If I buy a bunch of medical tools that doesn't make me a doctor. The same thing happens with a mechanic, electrician, and even a hair dresser isn't just a person with a pair of scissors. So why is photography any different?

Photography isn't different.

But there's a difference between a photographer and a professional photographer.

Just like there's a difference between a driver and a professional driver.

If you use a car, you are a driver.

Similarly, if you use a camera, you are a photographer.

You may or may not be a professional driver or professional photographer depending on if you perform the service to derive income or benefit.

And that's why http://youarenotaphoto​grapher.com/ (external link) is a stupid site. Their tagline on the home page "Just because you own a camera you are not a photographer" is the most moronic thing I have seen for a while in the photography world.


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smorter
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Jan 24, 2012 08:49 |  #103

karlpilkington wrote in post #13759234 (external link)
truth be told, i've never entered a hobby with more snobs than photography.

i'm still trying to figure out what it is that makes photographers feel so entitled.

Totally agree. Though I think it may also be an internet thing.

But yes, the majority of professional photographers I meet are arrogant or snobs


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JeffreyG
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Jan 24, 2012 09:04 |  #104

Are amateur horny people ruining the market for prostitutes? A lot of these people reach adolescence, get some equipment and suddenly they think they are qualified.

What's really annoying is that a lot of them are terrible, but they think they are great. And when they give it away, they never think about the professional sex worker that they are putting out of business.

These amateurs are all just happy to get access. And the public doesn't care about quality. If they can get a free lay from an amateur, why shell out big bucks for quality?


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Jan 24, 2012 09:09 |  #105

smorter wrote in post #13759338 (external link)
But yes, the majority of professional photographers I meet are arrogant or snobs

They must be insecure or something eh?
I encountered the same thing with music.
Most of these "snobs" like to talk the talk but never are able to walk the walk.




  
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