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Thread started 28 Jan 2012 (Saturday) 05:21
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24-150mm V 24-70mm V 17-55mm for EOS 7D

 
FEChariot
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Jan 28, 2012 10:33 as a reply to  @ post 13783018 |  #16

If you, the OP, is wondering if f4 or f2.8 is fast enough without primes, my answer is even 2.8 is too slow for everything and primes will still be very usefull.

Also don't listen to the people saying 24 is not wide enough. You need to decide that for yourself. The same argument can be used for the 17-55 in that it is too short. A 24-70 or a 28-75 covers the portrait range well. However, if you are always shooting at 28mm and wanting to go wider, then yes get a 17-55.

I upgraded from the 28-75/2.8 to the 24-105. I found that I hardly ever used the Tamron at 2.8 because it was much sharper at 4.0 and my 24-105 is very sharp at 4.0. Add IS and USM with much better build quality and the 24-105 is a great upgrade to the Tammy. The 24-70 is great too, but especially without IS, I think you still would want at least one 1.8 or 1.4 prime like the Sigma 30.

I consider the 17-55 and 24-xx lens to be more complimentary than competitive. My next lens will be either a Sigma 17-50 or Canon 17-55 when I upgrade my 18-55IS, but the 24-105 was the better pick for the first of the two for me.


Canon 7D/350D, Σ17-50/2.8 OS, 18-55IS, 24-105/4 L IS, Σ30/1.4 EX, 50/1.8, C50/1.4, 55-250IS, 60/2.8, 70-200/4 L IS, 85/1.8, 100/2.8 IS L, 135/2 L 580EX II, 430EX II * 2, 270EX II.

  
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Fernando
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Jan 28, 2012 10:39 |  #17

jeffrosproto wrote in post #13782853 (external link)
I would have to disagree, I love my 24-105 on my 60D. When I had an 18-135, I found myself using the longer (30-100) end of it anyway, so the 24-105 fits my shooting style perfectly. It may not work for you, but until he finds out what focal lengths he uses most, you can't say the 24-105 isn't what you want on a crop body.

This. Regarles of what Kenji has written, twice now, it's a personal choice based on style and subject. I woulnd't trade my 24-105 for any of the lenses listed.

-Fernando


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KenjiS
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Jan 28, 2012 10:45 |  #18

Fernando wrote in post #13783296 (external link)
This. Regarles of what Kenji has written, twice now, it's a personal choice based on style and subject. I woulnd't trade my 24-105 for any of the lenses listed.

-Fernando

I'm just going by what i think the OP is trying to communicate...Sorry if im coming off too "Harsh" or something...He noted in one of his posts that the 24-105 is still lacking in the wide end to him, So yeah...

Yeesh and im not hating on the 24-105, I owned one and it was my favorite thing in the world...

And then I got a 30D and went digital, and then it was just not wide enough, Loved the long end, hated the short end, Swapped for the 17-55, Wasnt wide enough or long enough, Ended up getting a 10-20 and the 28-75...and then hated switching lenses every 5 seconds just to go to 15 or so...Almost switched to Nikon actually at this point before Canon launched the 15-85...

When I go full frame the 24-105 might very well end up being the only lens i've ever owned twice...


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bigpow
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Jan 28, 2012 11:19 |  #19

15-85 (is better than 24-105 on crop), seriously.


[5DM2: 50L, 100L, 24-105L, 70-200/2.8IS L II, Zeiss 2/35 ZE]
[Fuji X100S] [Sony A7 II: 55/1.8, 28-70]

  
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john5189
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Jan 28, 2012 14:26 |  #20

From back in the days when great zoom lenses did not really exist[affordable] the longest lense that I really felt was useful for a wide angle shot[Big groups, buildings, landscape] was 28mm.
24mm was best though.
But 24mm is not achievable on a standard range zoom[Being the28 to 70mm range] for a crop camera.
Now I personally would like a lense that was versatile and operated over this minimum zoom range.
If you dont need to zoom out to a wide angle then maybe the 24-105 would be excellant[on a crop camera you cant see the distorted edges of the image this lense gives in full frame].

If you require wideangle then the start area for a cropper has to be 17mm-ish.

It all dependes on what you require the camera to do.


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amfoto1
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Jan 28, 2012 15:02 |  #21

You will get plenty of opinions with this question! Probably will end up more confused than ever!

A couple general things....

You are asking about a "mid-range" zoom for your 7D. There are two schools of thought... Use one of the EF-S/crop mid-range zooms or use one of the FF design mid-range zooms. Some will tell you that "24-whatever" is a "terrible" range of focal lengths on a crop camera, but that's pure BS. What they are saying is that they prefer a different range... Not everyone feels the same way. Other folks use and like the 24-whatever or 28-whatever range just fine on crop cameras, thank you. You can built a fine system of lenses around either one! The other lenses in your kit, both longer and shorter, can be chosen to fit nicely with either a crop-design or a FF design mid-range zoom lens.

The other common point of contention is whether or not to go f2.8. Many folks want a fast lens for their mid-range, and with good reason. It would be better if you need large aperture for portraits and such, and you don't have some faster primes. However, if you are planning to get some fast primes such as the Canon 28/1.8, 50/1.4 and 85/1.8, you might not need to get a fast mid-range... It might make more sense to get a slower, but more compact "walk-around" lens, a better travel companion, and when you have the need for speed you can fall back on the primes in your kit. A slower lens typically covers a wider range of focal lengths, and in some cases is more resistant to issues such as flare and abberations.

So here are your possibilities:

The most compact, quality lens is probably the Canon EF-S 15-85 IS. It doesn't have big apertures, but it has a super range of focal lengths, in crop sensor terms... A bit wider than most. USM. Top image quality, though it's not an L (by definition, no EF-S lens ever will have a red stripe painted on it, no matter how good it is).

The fastest, quality option in a crop design lens is the Canon EF-S 17-55/2.8 IS. Narrower zoom range to get the fast aperture. Top image quality, mid-grade build. USM. There used to be some issues with dust getting in and IS failures, but we don't seem to hear much about these any more, so I suspect Canon has done some quiet fixes.

Now often offered as a moderately upgraded kit lens with the 60D and 7D, the EF-S 18-135 IS offers the widest range of focal lengths in a single lens. Image quality seems pretty good. A solid walk-around lens, but not particularly fast (f3.5-5.6), and it lacks USM. Still, this would be a convenient lens, covering a lot of useful focal lengths in a single zoom.

Then there are full frame capable options:

The EF 24-70/2.8L is the premium "fast" choice... the most expensive of the bunch. Well made, a workhorse of a lens, it works extremely well on 7D... Don't have any concerns about that. Anyone who says otherwise hasn't actually used it. I have... a lot. It is a big lens... nicknamed "the brick" for a reason... But is a very solid performer that a lot of pros use. It's quite close focusing and sharp throughout the zoom range. AF is USM, so quite quick and accurate. There are reports of variations... Well here's a revelation: Over time and with use lenses can get out of adjustment and need to be sent in for calibration. It happens with all lenses. Send it in for service and it will come back perfect nine out of ten times or better. Another revelation: When people spend this much for a lens they tend to be very critical and demanding of it... expecting perfection. No lens is perfect... This one is merely very, very good for a zoom.

The EF 24-205/4L IS is a more compact option, with a wider range of focal lengths, but of course it's an f4 lens. Also an L, it's quite well made and durable. Might be a more practical travel choice, especially for someone who is complementing it with faster prime lenses. T'aint cheap! But it also isn't as expensive as the 24-70. It does tend to have some rather heavy vignetting in the corners at the 24mm end, when used wide open. But this won't be seen much on a crop camera. It's a USM lens, too... and close focusing, but not as close as the 24-70.

The EF 28-135 IS... is sort of a "poor man's 24-105". It's not an L, but is much less expensive (downright cheap on the used market, so many have been sold in kits) and comes surprisingly close to the L's in terms of image quality. It is a variable aperture lens, and not particularly fast (f3.5-5.6)... but close focusing, has USM, and mid-grade build quality (roughly equal to the build of the 17-55 and 15-85, for example). It's close focusing, too... just not quite as close as the 24-105 or 24-70. Don't expect it to be as durable, long lasting or well sealed as the L's... But you can buy 3 or 4 or 5 of the 28-135s for the price of one of the L's. The weakest part of it's range is out at 135mm, where wide open (f5.6) it's a little soft. It has slightly more distortion than the two L's at the wide angle end, but doesn't vignette as much as the 24-105.

I've used three copies of the 28-135 over the years, all were good. I still have one as a backup/loaner/walk-around, to the 24-70 I primarily use. I don't have or need a 24-105. Nor do I want or need any of the EF-S lenses, mainly because I use both crop and FF cameras. But I also have always really liked the 24 or 28-whatever range on my crop cameras (that I used exclusively for 4 or 5 years). I find it a convenient and useful range, and simply match it up with appropriate longer and wider lenses.

One minor complaint... The 28-135 tends to have "zoom creep"... It tends to self-extend when carrying it around. The 24-105 sometimes does this, too, though less commonly than the 28-135. It's pretty easily fixed with a rubber band... But Canon could pay more attention to dampening the zoom mechanism on these lenses, or fit them with a zoom lock.

You really would have trouble telling apart images made with any of the above lenses, printed 11x14 or 16x20.

There are some other possibilities, but the above are currently offered Canon models. This doesn't even start to consider comparable third party lenses, some of which are pretty darned good, too.

There really isn't "better" or "best" among these... all are good. Each lens offers solid reasons someone might choose them and happily use them. I've never used the Tamron 28-75, so can't really compare (I know some Tamron have great image quality and are well made, I've used various of their lenses over the years.... Just not the 28-75). I suspect the main difference you will see is AF performance, particularly if you go with one of the USM lenses. Quite a few of the lenses mentioned also have IS, which is always nice to have, though personally on focal lengths such as these it wouldn't be a high priority consideration for me. (I do very much prefer to have IS on lenses 100mm and longer.)

Just pick the lens that best fits your needs and kit. I don't think you'll be disappointed.


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Winwin
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Jan 28, 2012 15:11 |  #22

You're on the 7D, which is a crop body, so Ide recommend the 17-55 IS.
The 24-105 and 24-70 won't be wide enough after being cropped at 24mm by 1.6x.


Win.
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bigpow
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Jan 28, 2012 19:41 |  #23

Best way to find out: rent/buy/try.
IME, the difference between shots taken with 15-85 on 50D, vs ones taken with 24-105 on 5DM2, is very small. Just my own experience from owning all those bodies & lens. 24-105 on crop, is too limiting.


[5DM2: 50L, 100L, 24-105L, 70-200/2.8IS L II, Zeiss 2/35 ZE]
[Fuji X100S] [Sony A7 II: 55/1.8, 28-70]

  
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stephan902
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Jan 29, 2012 03:59 |  #24

Okay thank you very much. Especially amfoto 1 for his long and detailed overview.

Anyway I am still not really sure what to take. Normally I´d take the 24-105mm L, but i think it to be to dark and I´d miss the 2.8 quite often (since I use it very often with my Tamron) and I´d have to keep my Tamron as a portrait-zoom too. But still i fancy this 24-105mm.

15-85 and 18-135 seem to be nice choices, but honestly spoken I also want to get rid of my Tamron because of it´s poor built quality. By swapping to one of these two candidates I´d get again no good built quality. Furthermore they´d be much too dark and I´d again have to keep the Tamron.

I think if forgot to tell I have an 70-200mm 2.8 L USM!

Third-party lenses I generally reject expcept they are really much cheaper and better.

Then we have 24-70mm and 17-55 remaining. With the 24-70mm I don´t like its lack of IS and its high price for a crop camera. Furthermore its only advantages against compared to the Tamron is better built quality and better AF and little wider angle at the low end. Is that worth 1100€? So we have the 17-55 remaining.

So in my eyes i have two options remaining:

1. Canon 10-22mm + 24-105mm 4 + 70-200mm 2.8 + 28/30mm + 50mm + 85m 1.8 (+ maybe Tamron 28-75)
or
2. Tokina 11-16mm + 17-55mm 2.8 IS + 70-200mm 2.8 + 28/30mm + 50mm + 85mm 1.8




  
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stephan902
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Jan 29, 2012 05:19 |  #25

By the way: Do you have more information about the built quality of the 17-55 2.8 for me?




  
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kin2son
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Jan 29, 2012 05:23 |  #26
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have you ever considered selling your 7D and going ff?

Seriously you are not benefiting from the extra features on the 7D if you are mainly shooting portrait. Going ff is a wise upgrade imo.

I made the switch after owning the 60D for ~5 months and couldn't be happier.


5D3 Gripped / 17-40L / Σ35 / 40 Pancake / Zeiss 50 MP / Σ85 / 100L Macro / 70-200 f2.8L II IS / 430 EX II / 580 EX II / Canon 2xIII TC / Kenko Ext. Tubes
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stephan902
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Jan 29, 2012 05:25 |  #27

Yes i thougth about this, but I can not afford both 7D and 5DII (5D I is not an option for me) and i also do some sort of photography where i need fast and good AF in camera. So i have to stay with crop.




  
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kin2son
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Jan 29, 2012 05:54 |  #28
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stephan902 wrote in post #13787271 (external link)
Yes i thougth about this, but I can not afford both 7D and 5DII (5D I is not an option for me) and i also do some sort of photography where i need fast and good AF in camera. So i have to stay with crop.

ic...well out of those three lenses, 17-55 first, followed by 24-70 and 24-105 last..

However, my first pick would be Sigma 17-50 OS....


5D3 Gripped / 17-40L / Σ35 / 40 Pancake / Zeiss 50 MP / Σ85 / 100L Macro / 70-200 f2.8L II IS / 430 EX II / 580 EX II / Canon 2xIII TC / Kenko Ext. Tubes
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stephan902
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Jan 29, 2012 13:01 |  #29

Okay i decided now how to go on:
My total setup after buying will be like this:
Tokina 11-16mm 2.8 (third to buy)
Canon 17-55mm 2.8 IS (first to buy)
Sigma 30mm 1.4 (fourth to buy)
Sigma 50mm 1.4 (second to buy)
Canon 85mm 1.8
Canon 70-200mm 2.8
Sigma 150mm 2.8

What do you think?




  
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FEChariot
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Jan 29, 2012 13:05 as a reply to  @ stephan902's post |  #30

I think it is a great "do-all" line up. Do you think you will need the 2.8 on the UWA though? I would think most people would rather have the extra 1mm on the 10-22 or a 10-20, or better yet the extra 3mm with the Sigma 8-16.

Also you can plan the next 10 years purchases out now but in reality, your shooting preferences will change and so may your priorities change. I would bet this will not be the line up you have when you have spent the necessary cash to get this line up.


Canon 7D/350D, Σ17-50/2.8 OS, 18-55IS, 24-105/4 L IS, Σ30/1.4 EX, 50/1.8, C50/1.4, 55-250IS, 60/2.8, 70-200/4 L IS, 85/1.8, 100/2.8 IS L, 135/2 L 580EX II, 430EX II * 2, 270EX II.

  
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24-150mm V 24-70mm V 17-55mm for EOS 7D
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