Using pictures without permission, question

Hope this is ok to post here:

Here is the situation... I shoot sports pictures for the high school my wife works at. I do it for free, for the kids, but also for myself to practice and ultimately build a portfolio for future paid work. I post my pictures on my Flickr site for the kids to access.

So, a few months ago, my wife says that the lady in charge of the yearbook wants to use a lot of my pictures, but my wife had said she is not the most ethical person in the world (keeping a long story short...), so I said no.

Last week my wife says she still wants to use my pictures, but she, and I, said no. So, my question is... If she actually does use my pictures, is there anything I can do against her, even though I have no contract, don't get paid, and doing it just for me ( well, and the kids too), or can she use them anyway?

Sorry if this is a long question, and being new to the business side of photography I don't know a whole lot.

Thanks!!!

Personally, I don't see what the big deal is. It's a yearbook. No one really profits off of a yearbook. And technically if you make the pictures available to the kids one of the kids could take the picture off your Flickr site and submit it to the yearbook without saying the source of the picture and no one is going to bother checking because, again, it's a yearbook. You're also kind of walking a slippery slope by photographing minors without parental concent (I'm assuming here, that some of the kids are under 18 and you do not have a signed model release from each parent, please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong!) and one of those kids may really want this image in the yearbook and you may be pissing off more than just this woman. Plus why let your wife's biased toward this woman affect how a child's yearbook look?

This whole thing seems kind of silly to me. But I'm not in your shoes and don't know the full story. My general opinion still is, however, that it's a yearbook, meant for kids.

Yearbooks were money makers for my HS back when Dinosaurs walked the Earth...

I could see the school taking a rights approach of:
- Students
- On School Grounds
- Engaged in Sanctioned School Events

It may not be correct, but I could see them doing it.

If you're bound and determined to deny use, you're only two real choices are to take them down off Flickr or else watermark them so aggressively that they can't be printed without it being obvious from whence they came.

Correct me if I am wrong but it sounds like you are letting your wife be the middleman (person) in this situation. If this is the case I would stop doing that and pick up the phone and talk to the person you have an issue with. You said that your wife said that this person can be unethical, in what context? Is this second, third, fourth hand rumor mill working hard at a school. If you have not had any personal bad dealings with them her then you are working off of conjecture and rumor and that, imo, is a bad way of doing business. First and foremost I would take your wife out of the middle and do your own dealings but make sure you know what you want which you haven't even told us. I sort of get the impression that you simply don't want the yearbook to have your images, period. If that is the case then take them down and don't make them available to the students.

"Unethical" is a pretty broad term. In what context will she use your images in this fashion. Is this more personal than factual. There is some information here that you haven't shared but yet want us to give an informed opinion. I fail to see why you would make your images available to the students for free and then not allow them to use them in the yearbook. Is the yearbook not for the students?

kenjancef wrote in post #13838477
If she actually does use my pictures, is there anything I can do against her, even though I have no contract, don't get paid, and doing it just for me ( well, and the kids too), or can she use them anyway?

As an unpaid, un-contracted photographer you own the copyright on your images and they can't be used without your permission. If she uses them without permission you can sue for copyright infringement but action after infringement is expensive and frankly too late.

It would be far better to take action in advance to ensure that she does not use them. The best way to do this is to diplomatically involve the school. You would do this by writing a very nice, but professional letter, to both her and the school saying that you understand that they are interested in using your images for the YB and while you are flattered by this you, as the copyright holder, can only agree if a mutually acceptable license is agreed.

Put simply, if the school is involved then they are going to be looking over her shoulder to make sure she doesn't do anything wrong. Also, if they are doing this to make money and she is a separate business (and intends to earn money from this) there is no reason why you should not get paid as well. If everyone is doing this out of the goodness of their hearts and wont get a penny then giving away your images is fine. But if they are getting money, you should too.

If you do decide to let them use your images you should, at the very least, get a prominent credit at the front of the book.

Thanks for the replies.

It boils down to a few things:

1. This teacher never asks for help, yet she has no problem taking other people's work so she doesn't have to do it herself.

2. Because of number 1, this teacher and my wife had a falling-out of sorts.

So after reading all of your posts, it does sound like it is a petty argument, and the kids will lose out. They do have access to all of my pictures, but I can see how it would work out good in the yearbook. Guess it takes getting replies like this to see the bigger picture. Since I am not employed by them I only go by what my wife tells me.

I will try to talk to this person to see what's up and go from there.

And as far as a model release and ages and such: The AD and coaches of the sports I shoot ask me what game I am going to next when I see them, so I don't think it's a problem for the school or the team. And the parents are LOVING the pictures too, they talk to me all the time at the games. So I'm not worrying about that.

Thanks again everybody. And any more comments are appreciated too...

I think it is the publisher that has the responsibility to make sure permission is secured, so the teacher must get permission from the kids (parents), not you. If you were selling them it would be different.

I would specifically demand credits on your photos (somewhere in the book, not under each) in a letter where you copy the administration of the school. That's good advertising for you and reasonable "quid pro quo" - and keeps the teacher from taking credit and ticking off your wife!

1. It would be better to deal with the person in question directly before it becomes an issue.
2. You are the copyright owner and have control over the images.
3. However-most people do not understand copyright laws properly. Forcing a reprint/expensive change to the yearbook is more likely to cause damage to your reputation than the teacher, even if you are legally right.

If you are truly doing it for the kids, why not donate some (quantity determined by you) photos. The lady in question does not profit from this. Having a good relationship with the school doesn't hurt, either. Are you selling prints? If so maybe you can barter for an ad in the yearbook. I donate photos to both the Middle School and High School yearbooks when asked.

Are they looking at your work as action shots or have you done team shots as well? Why not use this as an opportunity to say "hey, I'm at the games, getting great shots of the kids for free, why not throw me a bone and hire me to do the team shots for the year book?"

Stay in the kids good graces. They will be seniors someday and want Sr. pictures. There are two things they could say:

"I wonder if that cool guy that took all our sports pictures would do my Sr. Pics"

OR

"Remember the jerk that wouldn't let me use that awesome shot From the big game? I'd never let him take my picture....."

Buchinger wrote in post #13845456
Are they looking at your work as action shots or have you done team shots as well? Why not use this as an opportunity to say "hey, I'm at the games, getting great shots of the kids for free, why not throw me a bone and hire me to do the team shots for the year book?"

no, I haven't done any team shots. Not sure if they'll ask, but I'd do it if they did. I think the big thing is that the teacher in charge of the yearbook doesn't want to do any work, she wants to get it all from others. That's why she wanted my pics. She isn't taking time to do it herself or have kids do it, which does kinda get me upset. But we'll see how it goes.

Why wait for them to ask? Approach them! This looks like the perfect in!

Tim S wrote in post #13841199
If you are truly doing it for the kids, why not donate some (quantity determined by you) photos. The lady in question does not profit from this. Having a good relationship with the school doesn't hurt, either. Are you selling prints? If so maybe you can barter for an ad in the yearbook. I donate photos to both the Middle School and High School yearbooks when asked.

My thoughts exactly. Think about the kids - after all, it is their yearbook your talking about

First off I would resgister the images, secondly I would contact the lady in charge and try to work out a deal where you can get an ad in the yearbook in exchange for the photos.
The option of not letting them have the photos is a no win situation for you. If you don't, the YB teacher can easily make things rough for you in shooting future games. In this senario, one of you will ultimately become labeled as the villian in the whole deal.
If she goes ahead and uses them and you have them registered then your set up for a copyright violation lawsuit. However, a lawsuit against the school your wife works for may not be in your wifes best interests for long term employment.
If the photos are used in the yearbook, no model release is necessary as it would be considered editorial.

kenjancef wrote in post #13840773
Thanks for the replies.

It boils down to a few things:

1. This teacher never asks for help, yet she has no problem taking other people's work so she doesn't have to do it herself.

2. Because of number 1, this teacher and my wife had a falling-out of sorts.

So after reading all of your posts, it does sound like it is a petty argument, and the kids will lose out. They do have access to all of my pictures, but I can see how it would work out good in the yearbook. Guess it takes getting replies like this to see the bigger picture. Since I am not employed by them I only go by what my wife tells me.

I will try to talk to this person to see what's up and go from there.

And as far as a model release and ages and such: The AD and coaches of the sports I shoot ask me what game I am going to next when I see them, so I don't think it's a problem for the school or the team. And the parents are LOVING the pictures too, they talk to me all the time at the games. So I'm not worrying about that.

Thanks again everybody. And any more comments are appreciated too...

If the other teacher was really as unethical as you've made her out to be, she wouldn't have asked (twice) for your permission. She would have just taken them and hoped you didn't notice - or didn't care if you DID notice.