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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 06 Feb 2012 (Monday) 22:30
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Not 36MP!!

 
mwsilver
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Feb 14, 2012 20:10 |  #181

Old Baldy wrote in post #13899040 (external link)
Again, I think there is more than a little truth in that in the lower level P&S and entry level DSLR markets, but I believe the majority of folks buying a $3K DSLR body understand the real comparative performance benefits of these cameras before they purchase, and while I think it's true that there is a natural inclination in folks assuming more MP is "better", if actual tests indicate conclusively that this is NOT the case, due to OTHER performance factors, then the MP count will become a virtual non-entity.

I agree in general, but I was in a photography seminar earlier last year, only weeks after I got my 60D, and even with my relative lack of knowledge at the time, I was appalled by how little understanding of their cameras most of the others in the class had. There were a few 7D's, a couple of D7000's, a couple of 5D's and a few other models. While the bodies were all below the $3000 mark, they were, for the most part, pro and semi-pro models, some with L lenses, and most of their owners could barely turn them on, and were generally shooting entirely in auto. I suspect that many well healed folks with little knowledge, or real interest, in photography will be buying the D800 as a "trophy" camera. To them megapixels will matter.

Unfortunately if there is a turf war for the hearts and minds of customers ans its perceived that MPs are the key to success, it won't matter if a superior sensor can be produced with fewer MPs.


Mark
Canon 7D2, 60D, T3i, T2i, Sigma 18-35 f/1.8, 30 f/1.4. Canon EF 70-200 L f/4 IS, EF 35 f/2 IS, EFs 10-18 STM, EFs 15-85, EFs 18-200, EF 50 f/1.8 STM, Tamron 18-270 PZD, B+W MRC CPL, Canon 320EX, Vanguard Alta Pro 254CT & SBH 250 head. RODE Stereo Videomic Pro, DXO PhotoLab Elite, ON1

  
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RTPVid
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Feb 14, 2012 20:37 |  #182

yalemba wrote in post #13898086 (external link)
Rephrasing Jobs, "it's CRT, its LCD...r u getting it?" If Nikon delivers medium-format quality with its evolution to a 40+MP technology at a reasonable price-point, and Canon fails to evolve; Canon will become the next Kodak!

I think you should go back to the boxes in your attic an re-read Christensen's book. Being able to name-drop means little of the subject doesn't sink in.


Tom

  
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Joei
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Feb 14, 2012 21:17 |  #183

[QUOTE=Delija;13897544​]Not even counting the fact your signature shows you own a 24-120 "L" lens (where can the rest of us get one?) - this may be the most difficult post to understand that I have ever read here.

In any event, the camera you describe seems completely unrelated to what the 5D heritage of "all both" 5D cameras area about. Maybe this camera (or something similar) will come along - maybe next week, maybe in 10 years - or anytime in between. But as a 5D? I see no relation to what the 5D cameras are (other than almost the same number of mega pixels - which I find odd in itself. What practical difference do you imagine adding one MP will make?  ??? :rolleyes:

I also liked the nice round number of 6.9 fps - Personally I was hoping for 6.92 fps. But at least we are close :rolleyes:

My reference was to the direction canon and Nikon has taken on their new flagships: 16-18mp,great AF, FPS,video and high iso performance,which are similar from both companies, the specs I listed were from canon rumors about the next generation 5D series that should be announced soon, my mistake on the lens listed in my sig, it is a 24-105L,( thanks for the correction), I just switched to Canon from Nikon about a month ago. My post was from a quote someone made about Canon being a professional photographers tool and Nikon was not, which I thought was absurd.The 36mp specs on the D800 was the thread question and I was hoping Canon would not take the same direction which according to the rumored specs on the next 5D series they are not going to do.




  
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DuBarry
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Feb 14, 2012 22:12 |  #184

RTPVid wrote in post #13897322 (external link)
Here are some examples of disruptive technologies: the iPhone v Blackberry (mass market smartphone v smartphone as an elite corporate device..



Actually Tom, you and Yalemba are BOTH correct he is just using a broader generalization where you are being more detailed (well mostly). Take your own example of iPhone vs Blackberry. You place the iPhone as 'disruptive tech' when in fact it was just an evolution of existing tech ( the same thing you are berating Yalemba for doing).

We accept the term Disruptive Technonologies as the SUM of its parts not just the SPECIFIC Tech itself (you could argue that 'technically' it is not but again we, even by your own example, accept otherwise).

So the question that is on everyone's mind is 'IS IT REALLY A SIMPLE MATTER OF just UPSCALING to bring a FF camera to market and be competitive with Nikon's offer?'

This means MP / DR / ISO / NOISE / PRICE ... did I say PRICE already.

It is indeed the SUM of theses parts that may (or may not) prove to be disruptive.




  
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Higgs ­ Boson
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Feb 14, 2012 22:34 |  #185

Delija wrote in post #13899807 (external link)
Two posts back (at least as I write this) "mwsilver" hit the nail on the head. Many, if not most people that buy expensive cameras buy them as "trophy cameras" -

sort of like a Porsche 911 Turbo going 65 in a 70.......


A9 | 25 | 55 | 85 | 90 | 135

  
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stanclark
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Feb 14, 2012 22:41 |  #186

36mp sign me up.....


So if God made Man & Woman....whats his excuse for Nikon...

  
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mafoo
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Feb 14, 2012 23:02 |  #187

Higgs Boson wrote in post #13899910 (external link)
sort of like a Porsche 911 Turbo going 65 in a 70.......

As someone with a 911, I have to comment on this.

After two tickets for doing 6 miles, and 7 miles over the speed limit, you tend to drive a little slower then the guy in the minivan :p


-Jeremy
5D Mk II | SL1 | 24-105 f4.0L IS | 70-200 f2.8L IS | S35 1.4 | 40 2.8 Pancake | Samyang 14 2.8 | 430EX II

  
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RTPVid
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Feb 14, 2012 23:29 |  #188

DuBarry wrote in post #13899795 (external link)
Actually Tom, you and Yalemba are BOTH correct he is just using a broader generalization where you are being more detailed (well mostly). Take your own example of iPhone vs Blackberry. You place the iPhone as 'disruptive tech' when in fact it was just an evolution of existing tech ( the same thing you are berating Yalemba for doing).

We accept the term Disruptive Technonologies as the SUM of its parts not just the SPECIFIC Tech itself (you could argue that 'technically' it is not but again we, even by your own example, accept otherwise).

So the question that is on everyone's mind is 'IS IT REALLY A SIMPLE MATTER OF just UPSCALING to bring a FF camera to market and be competitive with Nikon's offer?'

This means MP / DR / ISO / NOISE / PRICE ... did I say PRICE already.

It is indeed the SUM of theses parts that may (or may not) prove to be disruptive.

The iPhone was disruptive tech not because of the intrinsic tech of the phone itself, but because it was focused on mass market appeal rather than business. In fact, the first iPhone was not even useful as a business smartphone due to its poor integration with corporate systems. The disruptive technology was the UI and marketing the smartphone to everyone from teens on up with the apps, games, etc..

Same with the Model T. It was hardly the first automobile, and it was nothing new in terms of motor design, etc. But previous autos were not disruptive technology since they were elite products, so the common people continued to use buggies. The disruptive technology was how it was manufactured to lower the cost so ordinary people could afford it.

So, what is the disruptive technology about the D800? 36MP instead of 21? Hardly disruptive technology. It may have not been what Canon was expecting, (that remains to be seen) but Canon clearly has the technology, manufacturing expertise, etc. to make a similar product for the same market point. It is highly unlikely to do to Canon's 5D-level camera line what the iPhone did to Blackberry or what the Model T did to the buggy business.


Tom

  
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Higgs ­ Boson
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Feb 15, 2012 00:26 |  #189

mafoo wrote in post #13900058 (external link)
As someone with a 911, I have to comment on this.

After two tickets for doing 6 miles, and 7 miles over the speed limit, you tend to drive a little slower then the guy in the minivan :p

lol. I got a ticket doing 85 in a 70 in a uhaul with my z06 on a trailer behind it. which vehicle really got the ticket???

that Z06 has 850 hp and I never got a ticket. and it is red. I sold it in favor of a go-kart.:lol:


A9 | 25 | 55 | 85 | 90 | 135

  
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RhysPhotograph.Me
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Feb 15, 2012 01:51 |  #190
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Higgs Boson wrote in post #13839373 (external link)
this thread again? are you so important you can't just make a post in one of the 100 anti megapixel discussions already rampant? do we need the same topic with a different user name?

+1!


Wedding photography (external link)

  
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mafoo
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Feb 15, 2012 07:58 |  #191

Higgs Boson wrote in post #13900321 (external link)
lol. I got a ticket doing 85 in a 70 in a uhaul with my z06 on a trailer behind it. which vehicle really got the ticket???

that Z06 has 850 hp and I never got a ticket. and it is red. I sold it in favor of a go-kart.:lol:

If I didn't suck at driving, I always thought this would be fun.

http://www.youtube.com​/watch?v=4hCSWBIEpkw (external link)


-Jeremy
5D Mk II | SL1 | 24-105 f4.0L IS | 70-200 f2.8L IS | S35 1.4 | 40 2.8 Pancake | Samyang 14 2.8 | 430EX II

  
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Higgs ­ Boson
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Feb 15, 2012 11:12 |  #192

mafoo wrote in post #13901308 (external link)
If I didn't suck at driving, I always thought this would be fun.

http://www.youtube.com​/watch?v=4hCSWBIEpkw (external link)

that's exactly what i do, just in a different language! it is unbelievable fun, way more than i ever had in a car.... i highly recommend it.

i'll be here:

http://www.lonestargra​ndprix.us/ (external link)
125cc Shifters, come check it out!


A9 | 25 | 55 | 85 | 90 | 135

  
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DuBarry
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Feb 15, 2012 14:21 |  #193

You see, I`ve heard this time and again but other than speculation, I've seen no evidence that confirms this one way or the other.

RTPVid wrote in post #13900161 (external link)
Canon clearly has the technology, manufacturing expertise, etc. to make a similar product for the same market point. .


Well I'm glad we're all on the same page (mostly).

I'm not even remotely nervous yet as I am saving my pennies and waiting patiently to see what happens as I am ACTUALLY in the market for a new camera body.

It seems obvious that there is certainly good POTENTIAL for disruption (if nothing changes) just compare the market reaction to the 1DX release and the D800 release.

In regards to your querry on 'what exactly is the disruptive tech?' just refer to your explanation of the iphone. It may not impress you but the marketing appeal of 36MP v 26 (say) CANNOT be denied.

And since we don't know what's going on behind Canon's closed doors No one is saying that it can be termed disruptive YET. It all depends on what happens next...




  
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mwsilver
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Feb 15, 2012 14:33 |  #194

Nikon's strategy is confusing. Isn't the D4 very new? This much more expensive professional camera only has 16.2 MB I know it may be geared more to sports with it's 10fps, but it got less than half the MP count of this also new, and significantly less expensive, D800. What message or sense of their direction are we getting from Nikon?


Mark
Canon 7D2, 60D, T3i, T2i, Sigma 18-35 f/1.8, 30 f/1.4. Canon EF 70-200 L f/4 IS, EF 35 f/2 IS, EFs 10-18 STM, EFs 15-85, EFs 18-200, EF 50 f/1.8 STM, Tamron 18-270 PZD, B+W MRC CPL, Canon 320EX, Vanguard Alta Pro 254CT & SBH 250 head. RODE Stereo Videomic Pro, DXO PhotoLab Elite, ON1

  
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jemanner
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Feb 15, 2012 14:42 |  #195

mwsilver wrote in post #13903432 (external link)
Nikon's strategy is confusing. Isn't the D4 very new? This much more expensive professional camera only has 16.2 MB I know it may be geared more to sports with it's 10fps, but it got less than half the MP count of this also new, and significantly less expensive, D800. What message or sense of their direction are we getting from Nikon?

The verdict of course is not in on what the next 5D (or 3D, or ??) will offer, but it has become very apparent both Nikon and Canon appear to be defining a clear line between a professional sports/action camera, and a semi-pro/pro landscape/portrait instrument. I am really anxious to see what Canon releases to counter the D800. However, better be soon, many folks are talking about jumping ship.


Jim

  
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