Does Canon still want our business?

Billginthekeys wrote in post #13841089
Seriously, this isn't even about just today's announcement, but that it is the current crown jewel on a pattern of incrementally better equipment releases at double the prices of previous equipment. Does Canon want their "Prosumer" base to dissapear or what? Do they just want to sell their high end equipment to pro's at a high margin who can justify the equipment as part of their business, and sell APS-C bodies and EF-S lenses to entry level photographers to compete with mirrorless and m4/3rds cameras and leave those of us in between out in the cold?

There are many of us on this site who have supported Canon's digital SLR's for close to ten years or more, and are heavily invested in the equipment both personally and financially, but they seem to want to price us right out of the market.

Despite the fact that every year you can buy a newer, faster, better laptop, phone, ipod, even P&S camera for less and less money, they seem to think it is okay for them to just double the prices of new bodies, new flashes, new and version II lenses. It has gotten to the point where it would be impossible for someone just getting into photography but wanting to take it a step past entry level but not go all the way to professional without relying heavily on third party options and used equipment (not that there is anything wrong with those options, it just doesn't help Canon's sales much). I feel like loyal Canon photographers such as myself are being left in this "prosumer" bubble that Canon spent years encouraging us to get to, where now we cannot begin to afford to upgrade our equipment to new versions of what we own or want, but aren't about to sell our current equipment for EF-S gear or to go to a different system.

Am I the only one that feels this way?

I don't feel this is right at all....

Haven't read the whole thread. From what I hear from folks at naturescpaes.net when 500/600mm f4 were announced about 10 yr or so ago, they were same in prices as new versions of these lenses announced now. Then prices fell and now they going back.

Developing a new lens is expensive. Once the R&D and initial production costs have been recouped, the price will come down on this lens. Happens all the time!

Bryan

I'm expecting the 5D replacement to be priced around $3500. So what? I am still getting it. It's a hobby for me, too. I readily acknowledge that different people can afford different levels of the same hobby.

Then again, so happens I don't drive a car. I don't drink (I see friends spent loads on alcohol annually). I don't really have other capital intensive hobbies.

I don't worry about new lenses, as a wedding/Event mainly photog, I worry about a camera that can focus in Low Light Venues, IMH opinion Canon is failing miserably in this aspect.

Why should I have to spend 5-6 thousand dollars on a body to get this???

If the d800 is as good as advertised, Nikon will gain a lifelong Canon customer.

I have been loyal to Canon, I think the 1DX is not the answer, @ least not for the price anyway.

Time will tell, but Nikon is calling more and more with each new body released.....

MajesticMomentsPhoto wrote in post #13859349
I don't worry about new lenses, as a wedding/Event mainly photog, I worry about a camera that can focus in Low Light Venues, IMH opinion Canon is failing miserably in this aspect.

Why should I have to spend 5-6 thousand dollars on a body to get this???

If the d800 is as good as advertised, Nikon will gain a lifelong Canon customer.

I have been loyal to Canon, I think the 1DX is not the answer, @ least not for the price anyway.

Time will tell, but Nikon is calling more and more with each new body released.....

Can I have your 1DMkIV then please?

To be honest I will purchase the d800, if it delivers as promised POTN for me will mean Photographers Over To Nikon.

the sale will begin promptly in order to replace all my glass.....

Billginthekeys wrote in post #13841089
Seriously, this isn't even about just today's announcement, but that it is the current crown jewel on a pattern of incrementally better equipment releases at double the prices of previous equipment. Does Canon want their "Prosumer" base to dissapear or what? Do they just want to sell their high end equipment to pro's at a high margin who can justify the equipment as part of their business, and sell APS-C bodies and EF-S lenses to entry level photographers to compete with mirrorless and m4/3rds cameras and leave those of us in between out in the cold?

There are many of us on this site who have supported Canon's digital SLR's for close to ten years or more, and are heavily invested in the equipment both personally and financially, but they seem to want to price us right out of the market.

Despite the fact that every year you can buy a newer, faster, better laptop, phone, ipod, even P&S camera for less and less money, they seem to think it is okay for them to just double the prices of new bodies, new flashes, new and version II lenses. It has gotten to the point where it would be impossible for someone just getting into photography but wanting to take it a step past entry level but not go all the way to professional without relying heavily on third party options and used equipment (not that there is anything wrong with those options, it just doesn't help Canon's sales much). I feel like loyal Canon photographers such as myself are being left in this "prosumer" bubble that Canon spent years encouraging us to get to, where now we cannot begin to afford to upgrade our equipment to new versions of what we own or want, but aren't about to sell our current equipment for EF-S gear or to go to a different system.

Am I the only one that feels this way?

Canon is also trying to strong arm the prosumer set into the 7D price cameras. The 60D is proof of that. The new "MkII" lens prices are obscene. Canon does seem to be trying to dump the prosumer customers.

District_History_Fan wrote in post #13859496
Canon does seem to be trying to dump the prosumer customers.

And to be honest some of us pros can't justify 13k lenses either!

The truth is though, if you make your living (or are trying to make a living) in photography that requires or benefits from using large primes, you generally don't own a lot of the other stuff that most general photographers own and that frees up capital.

I own a couple of studio lights and some grip gear but only because I bought it back when I still had a "day job" and could truly afford them.

If I were just starting out today and found myself as dependent on the 300 f/2.8 and 500 f/4 as I actually am today, I would never buy lights, stands, modifiers, etc. I also probably wouldn't have the 85mm f/1.8 or the 135mm f/2L either.

I also do not have to invest in a specific wardrobe such as for weddings or social events. I know this sounds odd, but it's a legit budget item when you have to own suits or a tux or even just a decent amount of collared shirts and dress pants. In my world, that's money that can go toward the gear I need.

It all comes down to knowing your actual Needs and Priorities Vs Wants and "Gee, it would be nice to haves..."

FlyingPhotog wrote in post #13859578
The truth is though, if you make your living (or are trying to make a living) in photography that requires or benefits from using large primes, you generally don't own a lot of the other stuff that most general photographers own and that frees up capital.

I own a couple of studio lights and some grip gear but only because I bought it back when I still had a "day job" and could truly afford them.

If I were just starting out today and found myself as dependent on the 300 f/2.8 and 500 f/4 as I actually am today, I would never buy lights, stands, modifiers, etc. I also probably wouldn't have the 85mm f/1.8 or the 135mm f/2L either.

I also do not have to invest in a specific wardrobe such as for weddings or social events. I know this sounds odd, but it's a legit budget item when you have to own suits or a tux or even just a decent amount of collared shirts and dress pants. In my world, that's money that can go toward the gear I need.

It all comes down to knowing your actual Needs and Priorities Vs Wants and "Gee, it would be nice to haves..."

So your business model determines which lenses you invest in. Makes perfect sense. I think the complaint was from a non-pro point of view, though. There was a lot of mention of "prosumers" in this - the people who invest heavily in this as an expensive hobby rather than a business ideal.

I'm one of those evil amateurs who want to start making money with their hobby (in my defense I have 30 years of photography and started with manual SLRs). I know I'll just turn around and put it back into my hobby until I have everything I need to capture any image that my heart can conceive. Right now there are things that I see that I either can't reach or can't frame correctly, or indoors, can't quite shape the light enough yet. I hope/think I'll get there though.

I'm probably not a blip on Canon's radar, but at this point Amazon must LOVE me.

cdifoto wrote in post #13842372
In a down economy, prices go up.

Really, which part of the supply and demand equation is that from? Unless there's inflation or a significant change in the relative currency value of country of purchase to country of manufacture prices should go down in a poor economy due to reduced demand.

Setting a price is more complex than selling an item for what its made for plus a small profit.

Companies use the marginal principle. Through various means they collect data and determine how much and how many of us will pay for an item. They increase the marginal benefit until it exceeds the marginal cost. Charge as much as they can while selling as many they can. This is over simplifying the matter but the point is that ethics is not part of the equation. If some of us get left out who wouldn't play $2300 for the new 24-70L II, it doesn't matter to them if they are selling enough at that price to make the difference. They could suffer from diseconomies of scale when trying to produce more to sell to the pro-sumer market. We don't know the ends and outs of their biz-nas. We can only speculate. If I had to guess I'd assume they are like every other company with a board of directors hungry for numbers with their foot in the CEOs butt to make some magic happen this quarter by any means necessary.

- - - -

"in a down economy prices go up" is ridiculously vague

Nathan wrote in post #13859321
I'm expecting the 5D replacement to be priced around $3500. So what? I am still getting it. It's a hobby for me, too. I readily acknowledge that different people can afford different levels of the same hobby.

Then again, so happens I don't drive a car. I don't drink (I see friends spent loads on alcohol annually). I don't really have other capital intensive hobbies.

What an odd thought. You don't know anything about the 5D replacement except that it will be "new." All the information up to this point concerning the device is speculation.