Really awkward moment

I just had a really awkward moment.. I am wondering how others would have handled it.

I have become friendly with the father of one of my son's African American teammates. This, just starting out photographer, was telling me about how his new (non Canon) DSLR was defective and he was going to return it; "The camera is consistently under exposing my pictures" he said. I knew immediately what the problem was.

As background, I am one of those guys, so full of white guilt that when I order coffee, if the clerk is African American, I order "no cream, no sugar" because I just can't get out the word 'black;' ridiculous, I know! This is true, even though I live, work and play in a highly integrated environment.

Anyway, this man, and his family have very dark complexions by any standard. So I went on to tell him that, when photographing black people, he cannot shoot in auto mode; that he needs to adjust his exposure by 2 full stops beyond what the meter is telling him or he will under expose his subjects and loose detail.

I probably would have been okay if I stopped right there, but feeling so awkward, I went on saying that light meters are basically designed by and for whites and that the automatic setting don't work for blacks and that he will find it even more challenging to get a good shot with both white and black people it it, because doing so will likely stretch the dynamic range of the camera, tending to either overexpose the whites or underexposing the blacks.

That ended our conversation as we were both leaving the event. I will be seeing this man in a few days. I know the comments I made are correct and, I hope helpful; yet I still feel a little anxious about the next time I will see him.

What would you have done? What should I expect the next time I see him?

hairy_moth wrote in post #13877946
...I went on saying that light meters are basically designed by and for whites...

REALLY?!?

evo5ive wrote in post #13877983
REALLY?!?

Yeah.. I know. But, in auto, take a shot of a mixed group and see who is properly exposed... It isn't the black people.
And I do know about the 12 or 18% gray thing, but that favors white (or lighter) complexions.

You're correct in what you say regarding exposure but the part about being built by white people for white people kind of floors me.

hairy_moth wrote in post #13877946
I just had a really awkward moment.. I am wondering how others would have handled it.

I have become friendly with the father of one of my son's African American teammates. This, just starting out photographer, was telling me about how his new (non Canon) DSLR was defective and he was going to return it; "The camera is consistently under exposing my pictures" he said. I knew immediately what the problem was.

As background, I am one of those guys, so full of white guilt that when I order coffee, if the clerk is African American, I order "no cream, no sugar" because I just can't get out the word 'black;' ridiculous, I know! This is true, even though I live, work and play in a highly integrated environment.

Anyway, this man, and his family have very dark complexions by any standard. So I went on to tell him that, when photographing black people, he cannot shoot in auto mode; that he needs to adjust his exposure by 2 full stops beyond what the meter is telling him or he will under expose his subjects and loose detail.

I probably would have been okay if I stopped right there, but feeling so awkward, I went on saying that light meters are basically designed by and for whites and that the automatic setting don't work for blacks and that he will find it even more challenging to get a good shot with both white and black people it it, because doing so will likely stretch the dynamic range of the camera, tending to either overexpose the whites or underexposing the blacks.

That ended our conversation as we were both leaving the event. I will be seeing this man in a few days. I know the comments I made are correct and, I hope helpful; yet I still feel a little anxious about the next time I will see him.

What would you have done? What should I expect the next time I see him?

I think that statement made it even more awkward...

your initial statement would have been enough.

evo5ive wrote in post #13878000
You're correct in what you say regarding exposure but the part about being built by white people for white people kind of floors me.

Are you floored because it is incorrect or politically incorrect ?

Like I said, I already felt extremely awkward and should have just stopped after I told him to adjust by 2 full stops. Do you think I offended him?

evo5ive wrote in post #13878000
You're correct in what you say regarding exposure but the part about being built by white people for white people kind of floors me.

Yes, a very odd statement.

hairy_moth wrote in post #13877986
Yeah.. I know. But, in auto, take a shot of a mixed group and see who is properly exposed... It isn't the black people.
And I do know about the 12 or 18% gray thing, but that favors white (or lighter) complexions.

coz I think Auto takes into consideration the whole frame and probably use Evaluative Metering...
if you shoot in Manual and use evaluative metering you would probably get the same output since it uses the average brightness of the scene.

just my 2 cents... please correct me if I'm wrong

hairy_moth wrote in post #13877946
I probably would have been okay if I stopped right there, but feeling so awkward, I went on saying that light meters are basically designed by and for whites and that the automatic setting don't work for blacks and that he will find it even more challenging to get a good shot with both white and black people it it, because doing so will likely stretch the dynamic range of the camera, tending to either overexpose the whites or underexposing the blacks.

And your statement is also not correct. You should have stopped while you were ahead.

Try photographing someone who is very white and you will also have problems. The people it works best on are 18% gray.

hairy_moth wrote in post #13878036
Are you floored because it is incorrect or politically incorrect ?

Like I said, I already felt extremely awkward and should have just stopped after I told him to adjust by 2 full stops. Do you think I offended him?

Bit of both really. I wouldn't think you offended anyone, but as far as I know one of the largest manufacturers of light meters (Sekonic) is Japanese. Different race/skin tones altogether. There's no sense tippy toeing around a subject that's quite easily explained by simple physics and, in my opinion, there's nothing offensive in saying that someone with a darker complexion may be more difficult to expose properly that someone with a lighter complexion.

gjl711 wrote in post #13878065
The people it works best on are 18% gray

Designed by zombies, for zombies?

I dunno, I think what he meant by "white" was, not black. It's a Jersey thing.

monk3y wrote in post #13878045
coz I think Auto takes into consideration the whole frame and probably use Evaluative Metering...
if you shoot in Manual and use evaluative metering you would probably get the same output since it uses the average brightness of the scene.

just my 2 cents... please correct me if I'm wrong

You are not wrong. When photographing mixed groups, you cannot just chase the meter in manual either, you need to compensate.

My only point in that statement is that the levels that meters are programed to look for (12 - 18% gray overall) work better for lighter complected people. If we lived in a world where there was only one skin color and it was black, I suspect that meter calibration would be a little different.. Certainly the automatic 'portrait' mode would behave differently.

Many things in this world are designed primarily for right handed people (the majority of people). Is it really that offensive to acknowledge that in manufacturing the few things where the amount of light reflected by skin does make a difference, the manufacturers have sought to optimize the product for the largest market.

hairy_moth wrote in post #13878159
You are not wrong. When photographing mixed groups, you cannot just chase the meter in manual either, you need to compensate.

My only point in that statement is that the levels that meters are programed to look for (12 - 18% gray overall) work better for lighter complected people. If we lived in a world where there was only one skin color and it was black, I suspect that meter calibration would be a little different.. Certainly the automatic 'portrait' mode would behave differently.

Many things in this world are designed primarily for right handed people (the majority of people). Is it really that offensive to acknowledge that in manufacturing the few things where the amount of light reflected by skin does make a difference, the manufacturers have sought to optimize the product for the largest market.

I am not entirely sure...but for some reason I don't believe the largest market are white people either maybe a lot falls in the 12-18% gray though

Surely cameras are designed for other photographic subjects too and not just [white] people - wildlife/landscapes/ar​chitecture to name a small few...