Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
Thread started 13 Feb 2012 (Monday) 13:34
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

want to be a photographer, or are one? read this- the future of copyright/licence

 
harroz
Goldmember
Avatar
2,749 posts
Joined May 2008
Location: New Zealand
     
Feb 13, 2012 13:34 |  #1

I came across this a few days ago, it says exactly what I think, and is one of the best blog posts I've read in a couple of years. It's very true, and well worth discussion. what do you think?

http://dougmenuez.com …16/no-copyright-the-borg/ (external link)



blog (external link) weddings (external link) commercial (external link) mm (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
RDKirk
Adorama says I'm "packed."
Avatar
13,074 posts
Gallery: 2 photos
Likes: 599
Joined May 2004
Location: USA
     
Feb 14, 2012 07:21 |  #2

In my own work, I'm winding up in the position of this commentator to that essay:

It strikes me that we are almost going back to a time where the only sustainable business model for a photographer/artist was that of seeking patronage.

For instance, I shoot documentary weddings as part of my business. For those assignments, I am shooting directly for an end-client who has chosen to employ me to produce work solely for them. They like my work and the want me to deliver something to them in the same style.
A second example: I’m approaching individual corporate clients with suggested book projects that are tailor-made to them. They too follow a patron pattern in many regards. These are projects, perhaps vanity projects in some ways, that connect directly with the end client in a way a normal commercial assignment doesn’t.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Numenorean
Cream of the Crop
5,013 posts
Likes: 27
Joined Feb 2011
     
Feb 14, 2012 07:31 |  #3

1 in 500 graduating photography majors huh?

I guess I did it right by not going to school for photography.


Gear List

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
jra
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
6,565 posts
Likes: 35
Joined Oct 2005
Location: Ohio
     
Feb 14, 2012 09:31 |  #4

IMO, the market is obviously changing (as it always does). I don't buy into the whole "doomsday" theory.....if a market is un-sustainable, then it obviously will not last and prices will have to bounce back to a sustainable level otherwise the service or good will disappear (since people can't produce it at an un-sustainable level). Companies will always have a need for high quality advertising media and therefore a need for someone to create it. IMO, there will always be photographers who figure out a way to market themselves, their businesses and their product in a successful manner and make money. On the other side of the equation, there will be plenty more who try and won't make it.
As the market changes, we must find new and different ways to adapt and sell our services if we want to be successful.
The ones who refuse to change and simply sit back trying to market themselves by what used to work, while complaining about how the market isn't how it used to be, simply aren't going to last long. They will be the bitter souls whom we see posting on forums and blogs about how photography is dead and no one can make it in the industry anymore because all of the amateurs ruined everything. Just my offhand take on things :)




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Candyann
Member
Avatar
113 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Aug 2011
     
Feb 14, 2012 11:06 |  #5

I think a lot of factors are at play for a photographers failure to make a living. Some photographers just lack good business sense and customer handling skills. Too many times I have heard of my realatives and friends waiting 6-10 months for their wedding photos. It really shouldn't be a surprise as to why some "good" photographers fail. It doesn't matter how good of a photographer you are if you are also a flake, word will get around.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
harroz
THREAD ­ STARTER
Goldmember
Avatar
2,749 posts
Joined May 2008
Location: New Zealand
     
Feb 14, 2012 13:29 |  #6

yeah, I'm not buying into the doomsday theory, although I can see it as a 'could happen' for sure. I'm certainly not a bitter soul, but I am VERY passionate about what I do. yes the very good ones will find a way. That wasn't really why I posted it though, I posted it for the reason of licensing and copyright, and how it's so easily being given away for the sake of getting the job, a lot of new photographers aren't confident enough in their work or themselves to go through the licensing, or they're too lazy maybe? for what ever reason it's changed the income of the photographer, and their future income/retirement fund.

Here's something to add to it. I live in a place where there is a population of 45,000 people. We have 50+ photographers here. with weddings I know of approx 10 who charge ok, the rest are low ball, with 3 or 4 doing the $50p/h burn to disc or similar. I know of some extremely low portrait offers from new photographers as well- $40 a shoot, all images on disc(processed). In the commercial area the top 3 or 4 here aren't charging enough for it to be a decent business. The top tier has dropped. The amount you can earn has dropped. I know, this sounds like I'm cynical, but I'm not, I'm doing ok- I'm lucky, I have very solid clients who love and respect my work. This is just an observation, more because I'm passionate about what I do and want to keep doing it. When I read the post I linked it really hit some chords, I can see it going on all around me, more so than a few years ago. It's an interesting time to be in the industry.

I threw it on here cause I'd like to hear the other side, the positive side, bring it on:)

maybe I am turning into a grumpy old bum.. my wife might agree with that lol

jra wrote in post #13895550 (external link)
IMO, the market is obviously changing (as it always does). I don't buy into the whole "doomsday" theory.....if a market is un-sustainable, then it obviously will not last and prices will have to bounce back to a sustainable level otherwise the service or good will disappear (since people can't produce it at an un-sustainable level). Companies will always have a need for high quality advertising media and therefore a need for someone to create it. IMO, there will always be photographers who figure out a way to market themselves, their businesses and their product in a successful manner and make money. On the other side of the equation, there will be plenty more who try and won't make it.
As the market changes, we must find new and different ways to adapt and sell our services if we want to be successful.
The ones who refuse to change and simply sit back trying to market themselves by what used to work, while complaining about how the market isn't how it used to be, simply aren't going to last long. They will be the bitter souls whom we see posting on forums and blogs about how photography is dead and no one can make it in the industry anymore because all of the amateurs ruined everything. Just my offhand take on things :)



blog (external link) weddings (external link) commercial (external link) mm (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
harroz
THREAD ­ STARTER
Goldmember
Avatar
2,749 posts
Joined May 2008
Location: New Zealand
     
Feb 14, 2012 13:36 |  #7

hit the nail on the head? maybe it's this business sense, or lack of, lack of understanding any more than pressing the button on the camera and getting a few bucks.

but, with photographers having to charge a lot less, they have to do a lot more, so they haven't got time to process the wedding photos until after the season is over, they're shooting all sorts of things through summer just to keep their heads above water.

Candyann wrote in post #13896089 (external link)
I think a lot of factors are at play for a photographers failure to make a living. Some photographers just lack good business sense and customer handling skills. Too many times I have heard of my realatives and friends waiting 6-10 months for their wedding photos. It really shouldn't be a surprise as to why some "good" photographers fail. It doesn't matter how good of a photographer you are if you are also a flake, word will get around.



blog (external link) weddings (external link) commercial (external link) mm (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Candyann
Member
Avatar
113 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Aug 2011
     
Feb 14, 2012 18:08 |  #8

harroz wrote in post #13896946 (external link)
but, with photographers having to charge a lot less, they have to do a lot more, so they haven't got time to process the wedding photos until after the season is over, they're shooting all sorts of things through summer just to keep their heads above water.

And that is where we touch on the business sense aspect again, obviously something isn't working.I understand it is hard out there, some places more than others. But if you are good, people will pay if they want it.

I think also for those just starting, you need to supplement your income so you don't feel you need to tread water. How are you to get better when you barely have time to breathe in between bookings let alone edit. I realize this may be easier said than done.

As a photographer I do believe a big part of it is still the work you do, but you are also selling yourself and you are selling an experience. People like those they feel at ease with, they are more likely to book you at a bridal show if you make the feel comfortable and laugh without being a big phoney. Some people will never be able to pull that part off, its a fact.

Of course this is only one part of it. As you say "lack of understanding any more than pressing the button on the camera and getting a few bucks". We seem to have many photogs in my area who have ran out and bout T3Is with the lens package putting up facebook business sites and trying to spam groups for bookings. This is the part where you can say you really get what you pay for. But I guess like any business you will have your walmarts. We can't change what is going on, but we can learn to navigate through it.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
harroz
THREAD ­ STARTER
Goldmember
Avatar
2,749 posts
Joined May 2008
Location: New Zealand
     
Feb 14, 2012 23:57 |  #9

word!

Navigate through it.



blog (external link) weddings (external link) commercial (external link) mm (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Bosscat
Goldmember
1,892 posts
Joined Apr 2005
Location: Ontario Canada
     
Feb 19, 2012 17:58 |  #10

Thanks Gates for planting the seeds of the cheap photo back in the early 90's

The downfall of many has been Bill Gates and Steve Jobs, but they made out like bandits.


Your camera is alot smarter than the "M" Zealots would have you believe

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

1,900 views & 0 likes for this thread
want to be a photographer, or are one? read this- the future of copyright/licence
FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is Giku
863 guests, 309 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.