Improving AI-Servo accuracy for street shots?

DreDaze wrote in post #14000021
nice shot...but that eagle was really flying? 200mm on a 5dii...i'm surprised the wing tips didn't hit the lens

Yep - it had just taken off from the roof of a ger in Mongolia.

I see, tons of great advice in here. Thanks again guys.

The reason i used AI-Servo was because people are walking towards me (if they are looking at me) so focus needs to change for the distance.

amfoto1 wrote in post #13999614
...With manual focus lenses, for street shooting we used to preset focus using the distance scale on the lens, before even bringing the camera up to our eye. Today with One Shot and reasonably fast lenses you can snap AF in so darned fast, that technique is hardly needed any longer...

Not that I have a choice now that I'm using a rangefinder, but having previously done candid street shots with a DSLR, I still prefer the preset focus method over any autofocus option. No locking then recomposing required, and every fraction of a second saved, the better chance of ensuring that the candid remains a candid. This said, autofocus has its advantages, and it becomes a matter of preference. Moreover, if OP wants to maintain a very narrow depth of field, then autofocus is likely the way to go…

sjones wrote in post #14000093
Not that I have a choice now that I'm using a rangefinder, but having previously done candid street shots with a DSLR, I still prefer the preset focus method over any autofocus option. No locking then recomposing required, and every fraction of a second saved, the better chance of ensuring that the candid remains a candid. This said, autofocus has its advantages, and it becomes a matter of preference. Moreover, if OP wants to maintain a very narrow depth of field, then autofocus is likely the way to go…

How do you compose without looking through the viewfinder? If you have time to look through the viewfinder, you have time to autofocus.

Manual focus is a different matter altogether - s Leica with live view, so you don't need to conspicuously look through the viewfinder to compose, would make it even better for street photography.

Shadowblade wrote in post #14000145
How do you compose without looking through the viewfinder? If you have time to look through the viewfinder, you have time to autofocus.

Manual focus is a different matter altogether - s Leica with live view, so you don't need to conspicuously look through the viewfinder to compose, would make it even better for street photography.

I do look through the viewfinder, but I generally envision the composition before it reaches my eye. For example, if I want the main subject off to the right, I direct the viewfinder so that by the time that it reaches my eye, the subject is off to the right. With autofocus, you have to first focus on the subject; assuming you can acquire it quickly in low light situations. The camera is up to my eye and back down so quickly that I prefer to shoot over 1/250 lest excessive motion blur occur. Obviously, such speed is not always needed.

Still, there can be times when you have two or more subjects moving, and only in a fraction of a second will they converge into perfect position compositionally (as perceived by the photographer). In such case, this is where that fraction of second saved by using preset focus can be beneficial.

Moreover, some people in fact don't use the viewfinder, instead using preset focus to shoot from the hip or chest. However, I simply enjoy the process of looking through the viewfinder, even if for only for a second or less.

Putting aside the cost, the Leica S is a monster of a camera in contrast to my iiif, which makes it more conspicuous. Besides, I hate using LCD screens (note point above about enjoying viewfinder).

To be sure, autofocus might be fast enough in many cases (although by reading POTN, one might think autofocus is never fast enough for anything), but for me, it's just nice to know that I don't have to worry about the autofocus system locking onto an unattended subject. And again, I use a rangefinder, so it really isn't an option anyway.

While all of this pretty much boils down to preference, the rangefinder has proven itself over the past 80 years to be one of the best, if not the best, tool for street photography. To me, debating against the use of a rangefinder for street photography is akin to debating against the use of a telephoto for bird in flight photography.

sjones wrote in post #14000535
I do look through the viewfinder, but I generally envision the composition before it reaches my eye. For example, if I want the main subject off to the right, I direct the viewfinder so that by the time that it reaches my eye, the subject is off to the right. With autofocus, you have to first focus on the subject; assuming you can acquire it quickly in low light situations. The camera is up to my eye and back down so quickly that I prefer to shoot over 1/250 lest excessive motion blur occur. Obviously, such speed is not always needed.

Still, there can be times when you have two or more subjects moving, and only in a fraction of a second will they converge into perfect position compositionally (as perceived by the photographer). In such case, this is where that fraction of second saved by using preset focus can be beneficial.

Moreover, some people in fact don't use the viewfinder, instead using preset focus to shoot from the hip or chest. However, I simply enjoy the process of looking through the viewfinder, even if for only for a second or less.

Putting aside the cost, the Leica S is a monster of a camera in contrast to my iiif, which makes it more conspicuous. Besides, I hate using LCD screens (note point above about enjoying viewfinder).

To be sure, autofocus might be fast enough in many cases (although by reading POTN, one might think autofocus is never fast enough for anything), but for me, it's just nice to know that I don't have to worry about the autofocus system locking onto an unattended subject. And again, I use a rangefinder, so it really isn't an option anyway.

While all of this pretty much boils down to preference, the rangefinder has proven itself over the past 80 years to be one of the best, if not the best, tool for street photography. To me, debating against the use of a rangefinder for street photography is akin to debating against the use of a telephoto for bird in flight photography.

I meant the Leica M, not the Leica S.

Adding live view to the M10 would make it even more functional for street photography (allowing you to compose while not holding the camera to the eye), as well as better for macro and landscape work - none of which require AF, but need accurate composition.

Shadowblade wrote in post #14000646
I meant the Leica M, not the Leica S.

Adding live view to the M10 would make it even more functional for street photography (allowing you to compose while not holding the camera to the eye), as well as better for macro and landscape work - none of which require AF, but need accurate composition.

You still have to hold the camera up, and I find this process awkward and disconnected.

Again, slapping the viewfinder to the eye is very 'tactile' and quick for me. Using live view could not physically speed up the process for me…only more conditioning of the muscles and brain synapses could do this.

If the LCD screen is articulated, then yes, you could keep the camera down near the waist or chest, like a TLR, but like I said, I just like the process of looking through an optical viewfinder; just a preference of course.

For others, maybe live view would be more beneficial; I'm not making any universal claims. But like I mentioned, rangefinders without live view have been very effective tools for street, as demonstrated by the likes of Henri Cartier-Bresson, Elliot Erwitt, Joel Meyerowitz, Alfred Eisenstaedt, Robert Frank, Garry Winogrand, just to name a few.

sjones wrote in post #14000803
You still have to hold the camera up, and I find this process awkward and disconnected.

Again, slapping the viewfinder to the eye is very 'tactile' and quick for me. Using live view could not physically speed up the process for me…only more conditioning of the muscles and brain synapses could do this.

If the LCD screen is articulated, then yes, you could keep the camera down near the waist or chest, like a TLR, but like I said, I just like the process of looking through an optical viewfinder; just a preference of course.

For others, maybe live view would be more beneficial; I'm not making any universal claims. But like I mentioned, rangefinders without live view have been very effective tools for street, as demonstrated by the likes of Henri Cartier-Bresson, Elliot Erwitt, Joel Meyerowitz, Alfred Eisenstaedt, Robert Frank, Garry Winogrand, just to name a few.

I'm not saying live view will make it faster. I'm saying composing using live view, rather than holding a camera up to the eye and pointing it at someone, would make it less conspicuous.

Shadowblade wrote in post #14000841
I'm not saying live view will make it faster. I'm saying composing using live view, rather than holding a camera up to the eye and pointing it at someone, would make it less conspicuous.

I think this depends on the user. Even with live view, you still have to "point" the camera at someone. Yes, if you are exploiting the benefits of an articulating screen or using your apparent peripheral vision to shoot the camera from the side, then you can point the camera more discreetly. Yet, once the camera is up to the face or eye, it's pretty conspicuous by that stage.

For me, I can physically connect quicker using an optical viewfinder than an LCD screen…composition is largely determined before the camera reaches the eye.

Again, lots of folks shoot from the hip, using preset focus. I bring it up to my eye, but I do so at such a sufficiently quick rate that it's not disruptively conspicuous, or at least, by the time the subject may or may not have noticed, the photo is already taken. Bottom line for me is that if I needed to be more conspicuous, then I would shoot from the hip or chest; but this is generally not a need, and more importantly, not a desire.

Significa wrote in post #14000049
I see, tons of great advice in here. Thanks again guys.

The reason i used AI-Servo was because people are walking towards me (if they are looking at me) so focus needs to change for the distance.

I suspect you're not holding the camera up to your eye AND you're not using live view (you're shooting blind)

I'm an old school street shooter (meaning pre-digital the f-word)

It looks to me that there are a couple of things going on.

1. You are jumping the gun on the AF ie depressing the shutter button all the way down before the cam locks focus
this is going to require a bit more practice and waiting just that fraction of a second to get a lock

2. You are using a wide open (or nearly) app.
this means that if the camera locks on the jacket say, the face will not be in focus. There is an obvius fix for that

3. You are using centre point (don't do this) (don't use all points either though) (stick with AI Servo)
using centre point makes point 2 happen a lot

TRY using the topmost focus point - regardless of camera orientation the TOP point. With just a small amount of practice you will find that you will soon

achieve deadly accuracy. Of course if you stop down to increase your DOF you can go back to using center point (but your photos and chosen lenses suggest

otherwise)

NOW...if you are looking either through the viewfinder or at the LCD disregard everything I just wrote. You cannot be helped (JK)

One more thing that bird shot is just INSANE (I have seen it posted before)