I have some questions!

This is my first time posting in the sports section. I need some advice.

Anyway,

By the end of this year, I want to start making money off of this hobby. In my city, I have a local park and a high school where sports are always being played. It is an untapped market, and the parents get pretty into it.

If everything goes as planned, I should have a 1DIII and 300mm f/2.8L IS by the end of November. I would like to take this combo, and the 1Ds + 70-200mm (for all other shots) to some of these events (with permission) and see if I get any interest from the parents. If I see a potential business opportunity, I could set up a zenfolio, or something similar, and see how it fares.

I would prefer to do outdoor only sports, and would like to focus on Soccer, Baseball, and Football, but may also do Track, or Cross Country if I feel the need.

I have a few questions/requests for you guys:

Is a Zenfolio (prints) my best option, or is there something better?
Is there anything special I need to do (talk with coach, park officials)?
Should I approach parents, or let them come to me?
Is 300mm (390mm with crop factor) long enough for these sports?
Is a 1.4x a good investment for sports, or would the f/4 hold me back?
What is the maximum usable ISO for a 1D Mark III?

Now, some requests:

I'd love to see some of your 1DIII with 300mm samples, and high-ISO samples from your 1DIII's (1600+ please! ).

I'd also love any other suggestions. I have until the 2013 sports season to plan it all out anyway.

Thanks,

Benjamin

You'll shoot your eye out kid.

Chet wrote in post #14031490
You'll shoot you're eye out kid.

Hi Chet!

Chet wrote in post #14031490
You'll shoot you're eye out kid.

Grammar police, attack!

Chet wrote in post #14031490
You'll shoot your eye out kid.

Fixed.

Thanks kids (little goats) for the assistance. I need Roger on retainer as a proof reader.

I should request a title change to: It's 9pm: Ben has questions. New spam thread.

Is a Zenfolio (prints) my best option, or is there something better?
- I use backprint, but don't limit yourself to prints. I sell mostly digital images.

Is there anything special I need to do (talk with coach, park officials)?
- Talk to the athletic director for the Highschool. Talk to the league officals for the park sports.

Should I approach parents, or let them come to me?
- Talk to the parents, have business cards with a website and ordering information.

Is 300mm (390mm with crop factor) long enough for these sports?
- Yes. You would be find with a 70-200 2.8. Ideally you'd use a 300 but its not necessary.

Is a 1.4x a good investment for sports, or would the f/4 hold me back?
- f4 will hold you back for night sports but for outdoor day time there shouldnt be a problem.

What is the maximum usable ISO for a 1D Mark III?
- 3200 or 6400. Noise reduction software has come a long way.

BenjaminMH wrote in post #14030558
In my city, I have a local park and a high school where sports are always being played. It is an untapped market, and the parents get pretty into it.

It may have been an untapped market in 1998, but I have a feeling that is no longer the case. Not to say you won't sell any pictures, but don't quit your day job.

ZXDrew wrote in post #14077528
Is a Zenfolio (prints) my best option, or is there something better?
- I use backprint, but don't limit yourself to prints. I sell mostly digital images.

Is there anything special I need to do (talk with coach, park officials)?
- Talk to the athletic director for the Highschool. Talk to the league officals for the park sports.

Should I approach parents, or let them come to me?
- Talk to the parents, have business cards with a website and ordering information.

Is 300mm (390mm with crop factor) long enough for these sports?
- Yes. You would be find with a 70-200 2.8. Ideally you'd use a 300 but its not necessary.

Is a 1.4x a good investment for sports, or would the f/4 hold me back?
- f4 will hold you back for night sports but for outdoor day time there shouldnt be a problem.

What is the maximum usable ISO for a 1D Mark III?
- 3200 or 6400. Noise reduction software has come a long way.

This is exactly the kind of response that I was hoping for. Thank you. As for lenses, I will have between $5,500-6,000 saved up after I purchase the 1DIII to devote to lenses alone.

I am really considering these options:

Sell my current gear and buy:
A) 200mm f/1.8L & 300mm f/2.8L Non-IS
B) 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II & 300mm f/2.8L IS

-or-

Keep the two lenses I have and buy:
C) 400mm f/2.8L II Non-IS and invest in a worthy tripod and monopod

What do you think? I have always wanted a 200/1.8, but I don't think it is my best option.

RSB wrote in post #14079417
It may have been an untapped market in 1998, but I have a feeling that is no longer the case. Not to say you won't sell any pictures, but don't quit your day job.

When I say untapped, I mean it is ENTIRELY untapped! I have scouted some of these games and I have found that the only "photographers" in attendance are frustrated parents that aren't getting the photos that they want. Also, I do not plan on making a profit off of my images, I plan to sell them to ease some of the cost of the new body and lens(es).

BenjaminMH wrote in post #14079923
When I say untapped, I mean it is ENTIRELY untapped! I have scouted some of these games and I have found that the only "photographers" in attendance are frustrated parents that aren't getting the photos that they want.

Just out of curiosity, what part of Georgia are you in? There's a chance that you aren't seeing professional photographers at these games is because they have given up trying to make any money from these particular schools/leagues. I'm not trying to put a damper to your enthusiasm, you may do very well. I made boatloads of money shooting action of youth sports for many years, but those profits dropped dramatically with so many other photographers getting into the market (partially my fault) and too many parents with high end gear shooting for fun and giving away pictures. I am very, very selective with the action jobs I take at this point. I interpret your words that "You want to make some money off this hobby" that you are a hobbyist, albeit one with relatively deep pockets to afford the gear you are looking to purchase. The combination of a 70-200 f2.8 and a 300 f2.8, along with a 1.4 extender will certainly cover almost every outside sport you would likely shoot. The 200 f1.8 is a phenomenal lens, but at the short end for field sports in many cases. Not saying you couldn't use it and produce remarkable pictures, but the reach of the 300 is ideal, especially on a crop body, and the 1.4X will add that much more reach if you are shooting in nice bright light.

RSB wrote in post #14080333
Just out of curiosity, what part of Georgia are you in? There's a chance that you aren't seeing professional photographers at these games is because they have given up trying to make any money from these particular schools/leagues. I'm not trying to put a damper to your enthusiasm, you may do very well. I made boatloads of money shooting action of youth sports for many years, but those profits dropped dramatically with so many other photographers getting into the market (partially my fault) and too many parents with high end gear shooting for fun and giving away pictures. I am very, very selective with the action jobs I take at this point. I interpret your words that "You want to make some money off this hobby" that you are a hobbyist, albeit one with relatively deep pockets to afford the gear you are looking to purchase. The combination of a 70-200 f2.8 and a 300 f2.8, along with a 1.4 extender will certainly cover almost every outside sport you would likely shoot. The 200 f1.8 is a phenomenal lens, but at the short end for field sports in many cases. Not saying you couldn't use it and produce remarkable pictures, but the reach of the 300 is ideal, especially on a crop body, and the 1.4X will add that much more reach if you are shooting in nice bright light.

Northeast Georgia, about an hour from Atlanta. I wouldn't say I have "deep pockets" I won't be able to get most of this gear until close to the end of the year. It will take that long to save enough and to convince my wife! I know it won't be a huge boom in sales (which is why I suspect the absence of pro photographers), but I know the cost of prints will be much easier for parents to swallow compared to them investing in their own gear. I can't make up my mind on gear, though. That is my hardest decision to make!

BenjaminMH wrote in post #14079890
This is exactly the kind of response that I was hoping for. Thank you. As for lenses, I will have between $5,500-6,000 saved up after I purchase the 1DIII to devote to lenses alone.

I am really considering these options:

Sell my current gear and buy:
A) 200mm f/1.8L & 300mm f/2.8L Non-IS
B) 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II & 300mm f/2.8L IS

-or-

Keep the two lenses I have and buy:
C) 400mm f/2.8L II Non-IS and invest in a worthy tripod and monopod

What do you think? I have always wanted a 200/1.8, but I don't think it is my best option.

So you've never really told us which sports(s) you want to cover. If indoor sports, did your bring a light meeter to figure out what you'll need to shoot at each gym? If you can get my with an ISO of 6400 or less then you're good to go with the MkIII. But I've shot in three gyms this year that I had to be over that, and if it were not for my MkIV my editor would have been...well...not so happy. I know you've already picked out the MkIII but just wanted to throw that out there.

As far as lens go, here is what I bring to football and soccer. Keep in mind I'll mount a flash to my mono pod when needed, and when doing so I'm then limited to covering only about 50 yards:

400mm f/2.8 II non-os with a 1.4 ET
70-200 f/2.8 II
If day game then 24-105 f/4, if night game 24-70 f/2.8

If needed I can capture every play from one sport with this setup

For indoor sports shooting ambient:
70-200 f/2.8
24-70 f/2.8

Indoor sports shooting with strobes:
70-200 f/2.8 with an 1.4 ET
24-105 f/4

For baseball I use:
70-200 f/2.8
400mm f/2.8
and when I need to get in and get out for another assignment I'll just bring a Canon 100-400 L.

With all that said, you can cover almost every sport with only a 70-200, you'll just have less keepers.

Now to the options you listed:

BenjaminMH wrote in post #14079890
Sell my current gear and buy:
A) 200mm f/1.8L & 300mm f/2.8L Non-IS
B) 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II & 300mm f/2.8L IS
-or-
Keep the two lenses I have and buy:
C) 400mm f/2.8L II Non-IS and invest in a worthy tripod and monopod

Option A for sports not a good option, as your short lens is too long and your long lens is not really long enough for the money you're spending.

Option B works really well...but best case is switch the 300 for a 400. To me a 70-200 and 300 do not work well together as the FL's are to close. I tried it for a half of a football season and sold my 300 and got a 400.

Option C will work really well...as long as you're not shooting gym sports or sports under the lights. That will get you through Baseball, Softball, Tennis, and Track & Field. But next spring when Volleyball starts you'll want a 70-200 f/2.8 or a 85 1.8.

There are a lot of ways to skin this cat. Good luck with your decision.

Fellow GA resident.. though I am NW Atlanta.

RSB wrote in post #14080333
.... and too many parents with high end gear shooting for fun and giving away pictures.

/raises hand
/runs and hides

Though I don't have"high end gear", per what is in use on this site, by any means.

I shoot for the team that my kid plays on, and freely give the "good" pictures to the parents. My reasons.

First. I want to get better at getting action/situational shots of my kid. This is the primary goal. However, when he is doing something like youth baseball, he can go an entire game where he gets the ball in the field either 1 or 0 times. Also, he only gets up to bat twice a game, typically. Not a lot of opportunity to practice if that is my only subject.

Second. Access. This season I have access/permission to be on the field (not in the field of play). It is FANTASTIC being able to avoid dodging the fence of the backstop and being able to get shots looking nearly straight down a baseline.

Third. Guilt. There are 8 other people (2 are related, so 7 families affected) that volunteer to coach and organize the team. They get zero compensation for their time and effort other than the joy of doing it and the appreciation of the team and parents. I can't bring myself to charge them for my "service" when they don't charge me for theirs. For what it's worth, I almost coached, so I would have been volunteering that time anyway.

----

That said, I think I would LOVE a 70-200 f/2.8 with a 1.4x extender. With or without the extneder on a crop camera, I bet you could cover pretty much most fields.